Guest bastaad525 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Starting to hear funky noises from my ACT clutch... I know it's not the bearing as I replaced that a few months ago and I have put a LOT of miles on this clutch so I'm pretty sure it's what's making the noises. Anyways... I wouldn't mind a change as this clutch is super stiff and makes traffic a b**ch. Also, the ACT was PRICEY, and I'd prefer not to have to spend that much again. I gotta have the tranny dropped soon anyways to replace a leaky rear main seal and leaky tranny seal, so it's perfect timing as well. So I was hoping to get some recommendations from you guys of a good, not-so-stiff clutch that will be strong enough to hold my current level of power (200hp/234ftlbs to the wheels) and my anticipated power level after a few more mods (aiming for 250rwhp, probably close to 300ftlbs) without slipping. List prices as well if you know them. I know MSA carries Centerforce ones but I've heard they aren't all that great. I haven't really seen any other reasonably priced alternatives.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 A centerforce dual friction will probably handle the power you are looking for. Usually the one people having problems with them slipping are at higher power levels than what you are seeking with heavier z cars, like the 280z/xts. For 300ft it should be fine, I personally know a guy who makes over 300rwhp with a cfdf in a turbo 240z and he loves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 My Centerforce II put down the numbers you are targetting, and I ran it for 4 years never wearing it out. I replaced it when it started slipping on my current setup, and it is not badly worn. I'm considering using the old CF pressure plate with a puck disc, just to see how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 yeah i've put a LOT of miles on this ACT. to be honest I'm baffled by the sounds I'm hearing, because when I swapped the clutch to the turbo motor the clutch surfaces looked pretty good.... The ACT material is pretty thin even brand new, and to be honest I couldnt' even tell if it had worn at all when I pulled it! The flywheel surface was also perfect, however there was a very slight groove in the pressure plate surface... maybe that's what the problem is? Well anyways thanks for the tips guys I'll most likely get a centerforce dual friction then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 The biggest problem I see with most performance clutch setups is break in. If you expect your clutch to last with high power levels, then a properly surfaced flywheel is a must, and also is a good break in period, CF recommends 500miles, of moderate city driving. No clutch drops, no racing. In your case Bastaad I'd somewhat suspect that a leaky rear main seal has led your clutch down the path of destruction. Oil and clutch friction surfaces don't mix well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 In your case Bastaad I'd somewhat suspect that a leaky rear main seal has led your clutch down the path of destruction. Oil and clutch friction surfaces don't mix well... It's possible. But I dont feel like it's going out faster than it should... I must have at least 60,000k miles on this clutch by now... well over four years I've had it. I'm not even SURE it's going out, the sounds I'm hearing aren't constant. Just some little noises here and there, usually/always when the motor is cold. But I figure if I'm gonna have the tranny out anyways to fix the rear seal and some other stuff, and I KNOW the clutch has a lot of miles on it, and not to mention that I"m tired of such a stiff pedal... better to just change it now anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Ditto what Sleeper Z said: I have had my CFDF setup since 91 with 250ft-lbs+ of torque, with no problem at all. Break in is critical, and as long as the power stays below 300hp, you should be o.k. with a Centerforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 oh man... GUYS!!!! Centerforce Dual Friction runs like FOUR HUNDRED SMACKERS from MSA!!!!! Come on I said something CHEAPER than my ACT clutch. Hell if I gotta spend that much I'll just get another ACT, think it was only $275 or something like that. I really don't want to pay $400 for a clutch. How about the Centerforce stage I or stage II clutches that MSA also carries? either of them okay for 250rwhp? EDIT: sorry had to read it again, I see Sleeper was using the CF II. I'm probably going to go with that one then. Is MSA charging way too much for these or are their prices about 'right'? I think the CF II was $200 or $300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffp Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I bought my unit from Dymamic Motor Sports for 252.00 (CF DF unit) I did not like their unit myself, I had problems with hitting the flywheel bolts, on a stock flywheel. I can tell you that you will NOT get much more then 280 foot pounds of torque out of that unit new old or otherwise. My unit had about 5K on it and it gave out at that torque on the dyno. Give Robin a call at superior friction and see what he can do for you. (408) 436-1485 tell him Jeff Priddy with the 280zx sent you. hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 My buddys putting down 300+hp and lbs with slicks with a cf df, but it is in a 2400lb car. Hasnt slipped on dyno either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 jeffp - I'll give him a call For the price of the CF DF I'd rather just stick with the ACT six puck (cost me $270) as it's already proven itself and I know guys that run this clutch on 400+hp cars. I was thinking that I could get something cheaper as I didn't need this strong of a clutch to begin with really, and dont really like the stiff pedal should I get stuck in traffic. Apparently there isn't much of a middle ground between the dual friction/ACT clutches and just the stock clutch, unless the CF II is it? Even that one is close enough in price that I'd probably just stick with the ACT I guess. Well I'll call that guy and see if he can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Word for the wise: Don't buy performance products from MSA! CFDF in 240mm should be available and easy to find for under $300US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Word for the wise: Don't buy performance products from MSA! Heh... you're telling me!!! well... how much under $300 though? Jeffp said he got one for $250... again, if that's the lowest they go I'd rather spend the extra $20 and get the ACT again. This clutch, though stiff and a bit chattery sometimes, was great, never slipped so far, and I put a LOT of miles on this thing, over 60,000 easy... had it for going on 5 years now on three different drivetrains and trust me I've abused it. And when I looked at it when doing the turbo swap the only hint of that mileage was a very slight groove in the pressure plate wear surface. The clutch looked like new and the flywheel also. I dont know much about the dual friction... is it a better clutch than the ACT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 ACT uses exedy clutch discs with their own special PP. Exedy is Daikin, and they make OEM stuff for japanese cars, heck yeah its better. I personally am having a great time with the Spec Stg 2 kevlar clutch, feels lighter than stock pedal and doesnt slip at 15psi and load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Honestly at this point I haven't put enough miles on my CFDF to really give you a verdict either way, but so far I like it. (5000miles) It grabs well, isn't a bear in street driving, and I've no complaints so far. (realistically I am probably putting down ~230hp at the wheels) We'll see how it handles the winter mods and more power this spring. (bigger intercooler, bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, more boost ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 My CF II was $220 from MSA. And I was totally happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Good info everyone, thanks. Well.. I'm still uncertain... part of me thinks I don't even NEED a darn clutch right now, and I dont want to spend $200-300 if I dont even need it... the clutch still looked good when we did the turbo swap. What are the definate signs that my ACT might be finally wearing out, anyways? Other than some funny noises every so often, usually only when it's cold, I dont notice any difference in performance from the day I put it in. Is there some dead giveaway in particular that it's time to replace it? Well, it's between the CF II and another ACT then. CF II for saving $$$ but possibly limited usefullness if I ever go for big power numbers, and ACT for known durability and strength, and the benefit of having a super strong left leg Something tells me $$$ and my sore leg will probably win this one out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Well this sux... apparently the price on the ACT has gone up... the guy wasn't sure how much, I have to call back monday for him to call and check, but he said he knows that prices on ALL ACT clutches have been going up steadily. So I may end up getting the Centerforce after all. The weird thing is, at least in the Motorsport catalog, there isn't much of a price difference between the CF II and the CF Dual Friction. The real price differences are depending on which type of Z you get the clutch for. I dont remember, when I bought my ACT, which car or drivetrain I specified when I bought it. I was still running my built up N/A motor in my ZX.... I dont even know which flywheel I was and am still using. I think they are all stock 280z/zx parts. When I order the new clutch, what should I order it for? In the MSA catalog, all the non turbo clutches up to '83 are $230 for the CF II and $280 for the DF. The turbo clutches are $300 for the CF II and $350 for the DF... $70 increase!!!! I know the diameter on the turbo stuff is bigger... but $70 bigger??? That seems extremely rediculous. I'm almost positive I'm using a nonturbo ZX clutch and flywheel right now and i've had no problems... can I just stick with a non turbo clutch when/if I get a Centerforce, or do I need to shell out the extra $50? When I had the engine swapped and we looked at the clutch/flywheel/pressure plate, the flywheel looked PERFECT... I'd prefer not to have to swap it out for a turbo one as I've already had this one lightened. Sorry to repeat this question, but would the Centerforce II NON turbo model be able to handle the power I'm looking at or do I need to upgrade to a turbo model and flywheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 81na ZX Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Someone else already stated this option but SPEC clutches are another option. I'm running one in my Talon, it was suggested to me by my frined that's run one in a SR20 240sx, a SR20DET Pulsar, and now a CA18DET 510. He's never had any problems. Another friend of mine is running a 4-puck SPEC clutch in a 500hp 7M-GTE. N/A Applications: Torque: MSRP (i.e. really high) Stage1: 265: $299 Stage2: 300: 329 Stage3: 345: 339 Turbo Apps: Torque: MSRP Stage1: 390: $289 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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