80LS1T Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I going to be rebuilding my engine(93 LT1) in about 2 1/2 weeks and I was wondering if I am forgeting any thing? Heres what I have so far... New...Hydraulic Rolller Lifters, LT4 Cam Kit(springs, cam, retainers, 1.6 RR), Extreme Duty timing chain kit(gears and chain), Gasket set for top end(valve cover, intake heads, timing chain cover, vaper line gaskets, and a couple others), Bosch 36lb injectors,Holley 58mm TB, Heads are being P&P'ed by Jeff Odno of Ondo Performance and he is also doing the valve job and new valves, Center Force Dual Fricion clutch and throw out bearing, chromolly push rods Here's what I'm reusing... PM rods with new nuts, flywheel resurfaced if possible Here's what I think/know I need... New pistons & rings(need help in this department cause I want to go about 11:1 or maybe a little higher compression ratio, but I dont know if I should use forged or hypers???), new main, rod, cam bearings, and some gaskets that I know I dont have yet, new fluid dampner Am I missing anything here? Please I am open to opinion on my set up here! Thanks, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 oil pump water pump thermostat freeze plugs WOW....sounds like you and the credit card company are best friends now!!! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Yeah I forgot about putting down the freeze plugs and thermostat! I was going to put those down though. Well I can reuse the water pump and oil pump can't I or should I really replace the oil pump for sure? I might go to an electric water pump later so I don't want waste any money on a new OE water pump! And yes me and the credit card companies have an understanding...they give me money now and I pay them interst now and later! LOL What can I say I really want a nice car that I built my self! Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 for the money, I would replace the oil pump. It's the heart that pumps the blood around the engine. It's the first thing I would replace. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Originally posted by 80LT1:new fluid dampner http://www.go-fast.org/z28/damper.html I say again, go Hyper! Forged is not needed, I made around 480 crank HP with an ignition miss on stock pistons and that is not yet the limit. The rods will go before the pistons will and your not close to the limits yet. You have more compression than you need by far with that WARMCAM, so you'll never touch any kind of dangerous timing with the setup. I'm biased though heavily towards hypers, I dont like forged. Get the oil pump! False economy to avoid it As for the chain, you could have gotten a CSI electric pump and only spent $65 or so on a Cloyes double roller for SBC, instead of a $$$ single roller LT4 chain. I haven't seen the setup for under $299 that I can recall, major ream job. You can re-use the stock pump though if you want, watch the weep hole for drips, if it starts drippin' replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Ok enough said oil pump for sure! I don't know what I was thinking? Well the reason I don't know which piston to use is because I heard from some guys that if I have any detonation problems it could crack or break the piston if it is a hyper and not a forged??? As for the timing chain set...I haven't bought it yet so that option is still open. Pace Performance sells the kit for $242. How much compression should I run with my set up? My HP Goal is between 400-450 at the crank. Thanks, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I assume you know you need the computer reprogrammed to the new specs. Doing cam and injector and compression work will change the engines emissions and the computer will not like it unless it is flashed and reprogrammed. Otherwise, sounds great! Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 My HP Goal is between 400-450 at the crank. I want an LT1 and have similar goals. Just curious if the set up you described will get you there. Have heard a lot of positive comments concerning the bang for the buck of the hotcam kit, but don't really know what the HP potential is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I'm no LT1 expert, and maybe they can handle 11:1 compression on 93 octane gas, but my 10.5:1 motor is very sensitive to detonation on our crappy 91 octane out here. Someone else please chime in here about Mr. 80LT1's ideas about compression because I think it is a point of major concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I think that if you get into the PCM and edit the Spark/Fuel/MAP curve, you can avoid detonation, and upgrade to the LT4 Knock module and should be fine. But I would suggest that you find someone that REALLY knows what they're doing to have the curve editted. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Can I update to the LT4 knock module on a 93 computer? I thought it had to be 96+? Maybe not? The LT4 runs 10.8:1 if I recal correctly so I would like to think that 11:1 is ok with the proper tuning?! I am going to have Street & Performance burn me a new chip to put in it. From what I have heard they seem to know the most about the LT1/LT4 set ups. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 Ok I answered my own question about the LT4 knock module...No I can't update that with the 93 computer. Ok, Now Mudge you said I can go with a double roller timing chain for a regular small block right? So would I just use the double roller chain and then reuse original gears? I was looking through the Summit catalog and I found one... Cloyes CLO-9-3100 $67.95 <----Is this what you are reffering to? As for the water pump. I was thinking of using either the CSI electric pump(30 GPM) or the Meziere electric water pump. The Meziere(35 GPM) says that there is no modififcaton needed to put this in the LT1 water pump housing. Is this the same for the CSI? I want to do anything I can to free up HP that is already there but being robbed by something, in this case the water pump! Thanks, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by 80LT1:Ok, Now Mudge you said I can go with a double roller timing chain for a regular small block right? So would I just use the double roller chain and then reuse original gears? Guy, all timing chains (sbc anyhow) come with the gears. You just typically replace the set, gears and chain. GMPP has good one not so pricey as well AIR. But many to choose from and $50-60US lets you choose from many decent setups. I've got one or two extra sets now as I just swap in a new one routinely if I do any major engine work.....thought about making some clocks out of the 'old' ones now I recall you're stuffing in a HOT cam correct? I was just curious if you'd driven one before (HOT cam) and experienced the attitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 Ok, I thought that the LT1 engines with the new cams had that pin that goes into the cam gear though that's why I am asking about the gears. Do regular SBC have that hole? As for driving a LT4 hotcam'ed car no I haven't driven one. I have driven a LS1 powered Camaro and Firebird though. I am deffinetly buying a LS1 Camaro SS in the future! Love the sound of those reving up! Both of those cars were donated to my school(Fox Valley Technical College of Appleton Wisconsin) Though I havent driven at high speeds with either of them I can deffinetly tell that they have some NUTS! We took the exhaust off the Camaro last week and ran in off the exhaust manifolds and what a sweet sound that was!! Gotta love open exhaust like that! Thanks, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I want to do anything I can to free up HP that is already there but being robbed by something, in this case the water pump! You do realize that an electric water pump will use the same amount of engine HP as a mechanical. An electric will just do it by loading down the alternator. An electric fan can free up HP since they don't have to run all the time. That is not the case with a water pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Jim Powers: You do realize that an electric water pump will use the same amount of engine HP as a mechanical. An electric will just do it by loading down the alternator. [/QB] CSI claims their electric pump draws about 70 watts. Holley did a dyno test on one of their conventional water pumps, and at 5500 RPM, the pump drew 3.6 hp, or about 2686 watts. Electric has a clear advantage horsepower wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Greimann: quote: Originally posted by Jim Powers: You do realize that an electric water pump will use the same amount of engine HP as a mechanical. An electric will just do it by loading down the alternator. CSI claims their electric pump draws about 70 watts. Holley did a dyno test on one of their conventional water pumps, and at 5500 RPM, the pump drew 3.6 hp, or about 2686 watts. Electric has a clear advantage horsepower wise.[/QB] Wow - I would not have expected such a dramatic difference! It does stand to reason, as the pulley-driven unit must be extremely over-driven in order to cool effectively at idle....but 3.6 hp, WOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Just for argument sake, I wonder how much horsepower the conventional pump uses if compared to the same rpm as the electric pump. I'm kinda with Jim on this. Work is work. For the same amount of fluid moved, the two should be close. Perhaps the CSI pump is extremely efficient, but this wouldn't explain a 4000% improvement in efficiency, would it? I used to have a severely under driven conventional pump that freed up a lot of power, but it was marginal at cooling this way. Finally I put a larger crank pulley on the car and have never had any more problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Work is work is true. The electric pump is doing less work for sure. The point is that the belt driven pump is using up more power than is needed to keep a motor cool at high RPM. Once the cooling system reaches its maximum flow rate, the belt driven pump just thrashes around creating turbulence and heat. The electric pump puts out just enough to be useful. These guys did some interesting analysis: http://www.daviescraig.com.au/trade.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 Ok but no one has explained how I can use a regular SBC double roller timing chain on a LT1? What about that pin sticking out of the cam? What is that for? Thanks, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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