Anyway to increase steering angle?

[JMortensen]

"hey guys. i have the s14. you guys are blowing it way out of proportion. all it is is a thick washer, maybe 1/3 1/2 cm thick, that goes over the inner tie rid end, where it threads into the rack. you seem to be confused. this mod dosent really quicken the steering wheel, like a low ratio rack, full lock is still the same (1.5 turns from center, on my car) but at full lock, the wheel has more angle, to the point where it hits the stopper on the wheel knuckle. It would probably turn even more if i moved the stopper."

 

We get it. It turns the wheels farther. But that's not ALL that it does.

 

I don't know what effect that 3 or 5 mm spacer would have. I can tell you that 1/4 turn on a fine thread tie rod adjuster turns my car from 1/8" toe in to 1/8" toe out, and that makes a big difference. I wouldn't discount the 5mm change that you get from the spacers without actually knowing what the heck it does.

 

I actually used to install bump steer kits for 911s that had a rack spacer and a rod end outer, so I am familiar with these kits to some extent. I thought that the 911 stuff did that because from the factory the control arm and the tie rod were different lengths.

 

Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it does. I really don't know, but I would like to hear from someone who races or an engineer or fabricator who can tell me what it will do to the Ackermann.

[Pop N Wood]

I'm with Blueoval. If you "lengthen" the steering rack, you now have to "shorten" the tie rod end to maintain proper toe. What have you accomplished with all this?

[JMortensen]

The inner tie rod is the stop. By moving it out 5mm, you can turn the wheel that much more. That increased movement turns the wheels farther or at a greater angle than without the spacer.

[chmercer]

right. the toe can be taken out with the outer end just as before.

 

obviously you guys are thinking about this for the wrong reasons. If you are concerned with somthing as minute as ackermann, then this probably isnt the mod for you. it is just a ghetto mod that people do for drifting to get more steering angle. hardly any motorsport involves having the car at full steering lock. maybe autocross does? i dunno. but setup on a drifting car can varey widley, things like corner weighting and such dont really matter when all you are doing is goofing around and trashing tires.

[blueovalz]

It sounds like my assumption is correct: An expanded use of the steering rack gear with a matching reduction in the tie-rod end length. Makes perfect sense. With that said, the T/C rod becomes a problem with too much angle for the Z chassis. When I went to the short steering rods (Ford Mustang rack), and the deep backspacing of the wheels (5"), I found that I had to install spacers at each end of the rack to reduce steering angle simply because the tire was rubbing the T/C rods (and not by any small amount).

[JMortensen]

It sounds like my assumption is correct: An expanded use of the steering rack gear with a matching reduction in the tie-rod end length. Makes perfect sense. With that said, the T/C rod becomes a problem with too much angle for the Z chassis. When I went to the short steering rods (Ford Mustang rack), and the deep backspacing of the wheels (5"), I found that I had to install spacers at each end of the rack to reduce steering angle simply because the tire was rubbing the T/C rods (and not by any small amount).

 

So Terry, does that mean that you have shorter tie rods than control arms? I think the rack spacers are going to have both an Ackermann effect and a bump steer effect as well. With that in mind, your setup should have the same problems with those issues as well.Have you ever measured bump steer on your car? I seem to recall bump steer spacers and rod ends on the outer tie rods... how about Ackermann?

 

I'm beginning to think that it's not worth messing with, but I'd still like to know exactly how detrimental the effect is, if only to satisfy my own curiosity. I think chmercer is right, that this is a hacker's way of getting more angle.

 

I know I've got Ackermann envy from my 510 friend. His car with basically the same front end setup turns in noticeably better than mine...

[S30_dRiFteR]

here check this out. seen this youtuben yesterday dont speak jap but it helps... a lil. im still confused as well as how they increase angle but there are some diagrams in the video that maybe someone can decipher

 

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[S30_dRiFteR]

here check this out. seen this youtuben yesterday dont speak jap but it helps... a lil. im still confused as well as how they increase angle but there are some diagrams in the video that maybe someone can decipher

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP5zzyAmXi0

Edited November 6, 2010 by S30_dRiFteR

[Tony D]

What the "Jap" is speaking about is explaining the three things that you do to inicrease the steering angle in regards to the rack and tie rods.

 

1)You get more steering angle with the washers initially by allowing a lengthened rack movement.

 

2) By shortening the tie rod, with the increased turnability of the rack (it now goes slightly MORE turns from center after the spacer is in there -- they show this at the end of the video) BTW, it allows slightly more rotation of the wheel to get it 'straighter' out of the rack.

This goes hand-in-hand with is altering the knuckle stop on the lower suspension arm to allow more angle to be advantageously used with the shorter tie rod with spacers installed is used, in conjunction with the spacer the diagram is telling you to make sure not to clearance too much or you can go over-center and LOCK the wheel in place under load! He's saying to get it 'in line' but make sure it can't go further! When the steering unloads it's possible the tie rod could 'kick' back out suddenly and restore control to the driver... or not. Not good with steering components. It's like laying over those bicycle wheels on the front end of a dragster---same sort of thing.

 

3)Last mod is to use heim joints to accommodate the additional angle on the steering tie rods. They are diagramming the normal tie rod would be put into a bind due to the movement of the lower portion of the macpherson strut's steering knuckle.

 

Last thing they show is clearancing the lower control arm and various chassis components so there is no conflict at full compression or during track use. Because the wheel turns more now, there may be rubbing issues that have to be addressed and clearanced.

 

Maybe I speak enough 'jap' to figure that video out.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Tony D