Did my mechanic screw me?

[Guest garraeth]

I'm not a car guy.

 

I've got a '79 280ZX, the original engine threw a rod. My mechanic talked me into swapping out the original engine with a Camaro engine. He said he had instructions from some place called "Jags that Run".

 

Long story short, he's gotten about $5k into the job and is now stalling. Did he 'EFF' me? I am now looking at the Jags site and it says 1970-1978 Z's.

 

Thanks.

[JKDGabe]

Maybe. It's quite possible to put it in there but as far as I know JTR doesn't sell the kit for the ZX's just for the Z's. There is a kit (motor and tranny mounts really) for the ZX... what has he actually done to this point? Can you look at it or is it locked up where you can't get to it?

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

You can put a V8 in a 280zx in a weekend with nothing more than some steel plate and a torch. I've seen at least 4-5 of them locally, all done in rednecks' back yards. Sounds to me like he's reaming you, both on the price and on the time. $5k is a lot of money to spend on a 280ZX... unless it's a high dollar motor like an LS1 and is a VERY high quality installation.

[Guest tony78_280z]

Well with all the little stuff (wiring, carb tuning etc) It's taken me more than a year to get my car back on the road. Of course I didn't work on it every weekend. But the L28 came out and the v8 went in with only 2 weekends work. (not including cleaning the motor and painting it) And that was with the major remodifications of the crap tranny mounts I got from motor sports.

 

I wanna know what mechanic in his right mind would even suggest such a chore. They charge by the hour, and a motor swap is rather labor intensive.

 

What can he show you. Is the motor in? Is the motor new or used? Can he at least start it? Will it roll down a good hill? At the 5k mark he should be able to show you something. I'm at 4.5k total, (did all the work myself so no laobor charges though) and that includes the purchase price of my car and all repairs I've ever done. I can drive it. I guess it depends on how much the motor costs. You could spend that easily in parts. (I'm a cheap bastard though =)

 

Why he went JTR is beyond me. Even I know that the don't have kits for it. Sounds like a waste of your money to get that kit. That is probably why he is stalling he just realized that nothing fits.

 

My advice is to become a car guy. Buy books and read. Car guys are actualy quite intelligent. You gotta be to make sense out of a Haynes book that as an after thought mentions your model of car in the appendix, well if you drive a 280z anyway. (lucky zx guys get a whole book devoted to your car.) You alraedy spent 5k, so spend another 2 bills and buy up any and all books that you might need. Read and learn. You think once the motors in it wont break down again. Or you wont think of something else that would be realy cool in it. It'll need your tender loving care for the rest of it's days.

 

-T

[Dan Juday]

Even if you get your car back running you still have one more major hurtle. You live in California and your car is a '79. This means you will have to get the swap legitamized by the state for emission controls. This can and has been done before but it's still a hassle.

[Forrest]

I hope your mechanic knows what he's doing. If so he sounds like a pretty cool guy.

[randy 77zt]

i work on fords at a dealer for a living but have worked at a independent shop before.these kind of projects are not economically feasable for a real repair shop.maybe in some place cheap like the south but not in california.if you have to hire this kind of work out you are better off making payments on a new car and not being late for work.the small shop i worked at did projects for long time customers-like high performace rv engines.but i can remember a rebuild being done twice on a motor home becuase the engine balooned the torque convertor and the thrust bearing on the crank went out.if the car breaks down and you didnt build it alot of shops wont work on hot rods.or it will be straight time and material-there is NO motor manual time books for custom work.the car will need to goto smog referee to get certified-how many trips will it take to pass the car?isnt your time worth more than that?the engine has to be from the same year of chevy or newer,has to have all oem chevy smog junk,has to be from a california emission certified car.the ref HAS to be able to understand that all smog functions are working-like the vapor recovery system for the gas tank.i have a california smog license.i have done 2 swaps that were certified by the ref.my 77 z has a 81 zxt motor.then i built a 84 el camino with a 87 305 tpi motor.both took so much time there would be no way a commercial shop could make money .

[Pop N Wood]

The Jags That Run manual still has usefull information for the ZX swap. So the fact he is consulting them isn't necessarily a rip off. But like everyone has told you they don't have a "kit" for the ZX.

 

Do what tony78_280z said and ask the guy for a detailed listing of what has been spent so far. You can then post it here and I am sure you will get a lot of expert advice.

 

The fact that it is getting expensive is not hard to believe. There are several guys on this site who run professional shops who won't take on this kind of work because it does get so expensive and the custormer often has a hard time understanding that.

 

On the up side, when he is done you should have a phenomenal car. Beats the snot out of the 6 cylinders.

[SpeedRacer]

Mike from Jags That Run (screen name MikeJTR) checks this site once in a while so you might want to touch base with him. The last tread I saw from him on this subject was back in April where he stated that he was almost done with the ZX conversion

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=97239&highlight=MikeJTR

 

BTW, he already lists a few parts, (including the headers but no mounts) on his site.

 

Hard to say on the $5,000. It depends on which Camaro engine/transmission and what other changes he is making. I don't think a low mileage LT1/WC T-5 conversion out the door for $5,000 is too bad a deal. If it's some tired old 305 with a 2 BBL. and 350 automatic it's probably a bit steep.

[datsunlover]

Sounds to me like this mech is (possibly) doing the work on your car AFTER normal work hours.. like has been said, any repair shop/garage I've ever seen would NOT take on a project such as this.. it wouldn't be cost effective. I agree with evryone so far; talk to the guy and get a detailed list of what he's done, and how much $$$ has been spent. AND what he has left to do to 'finish' the car.

Several years ago I built a V8 RX7.. I bought the engine/tranny mounts and a chev axle 'jiged' to bolt into the mazda suspension. That was $1200. When I picked this stuf up (drove 6 hours!) the guy that builds this stuff (builds RX7 V8's for a living.. awesome!!!) told me "I ussually sell the whole car, compleated, for around $7000. IF the buyer provides the car! You have to realize there's LOTS of other stuff to fab/find/work out to get this thing going... " He was right. It took me another $3500 just to get the thing mobile.. and I still didn't have the front brakes/suspension upgraded!

[Guest tony78_280z]

Dan Juday says... Unless you "live in California and your car is a '79. This means you will have to get the swap legitamized by the state for emission controls."

 

What would happen if I moved to California. Would I have to get the swap legalized. How would someone get it legalized? Some kind of inspection? Not that I want to. I'm Just curious. My car would'n't pass emision. No EGR, no Cats. But where I live in Illinois we got no inspections. It's still illegal but I doubt a cop is gonna get under my car looking for a catalytic converter.

 

That brings up another question. I took out my EGR to fit the holley carb. Are there smaller or different shaped EGRs that I could then fit the Holley carb in?

 

-T

[Pop N Wood]

Yes, California requires all vehicles entering the state to undergo an inspection prior to licensing. Any missing smog equipment has to be replaced regardless of the cost. That is how I ended up with a Z. The car I brought from the Midwest had no hope of passing smog and I couldn’t afford a new one right away. So figured I would buy an old car that was worth putting money into and wouldn’t lose value. A Z was perfect. So smog laws do accomplish some good.

[Guest tony78_280z]

All missing smog equipment from the original car, or the motor that went into it? An 86 Vandura has different smog equipment than a 78 280z. Here (In St.Louis & Missouri, and most of Illininois) if a vehicle is more than 25 years old it is exempt from the emissions inspection But still has to do a vehicle inspection (blinkers & horn works, break lines aren't all cracked. You know safety stuff). But a car with no Cats or EGR is not gonna pass their vehicle inspections. Where I'm registered in Southern Illinois they don't even do any form of vehicle inspections. They figure the cop will catch you. So needless to say I'm running illegal until caught.

 

-T

[Ferd/289]

Since you dropped $5K already, you might want to stop the bleeding. The reason I feel you are in a bad situation is that apparently there is no deadline or spending limit or estimate. Maybe you should negotiate these two items up front. Like someone said above, its you have a knowledgeable mechanic you might wind up with a nice car.

Ferd

[Pop N Wood]

All missing smog equipment from the original car, or the motor that went into it?

 

They should be one in the same. If you put a different motor into it, then you have to get the swap certified by the state of California. The engine has to be from the same year car or newer. The smog equipment is then set by the motor.

 

It has been said before, but "exempt" only means exempt from testing. Legally all cars must have the required smog equipment, no matter what year. I think that is true no matter what state you live in. Obviously it is easier to get around this in some states than in others.

 

Maryland actually has more invasive smog testing than most states, but only in certain counties (the Baltimore DC area). The western counties (I don't think) don't have to smog test their vehicles. But if the car is sold, then it has to have a state inspection and technically the inspection station is suppose to check for the required smog equipment. So just to be safe (and for the challange) I hope to certify my pending swap.

[Guest tony78_280z]

Right, exempt from the test. It's still illegal. If I ever move to an area where it is required to test i'd have to make some major modifications. Until then I'm just gonna rely on the fact that most cops (around here) don't car unless you are hot rodding around town or blowing black smoke out the back of your car. I'm sure he could issue me a series of "fix it" tickets.

 

So I got a 78 car with an 86 motor. Newer motor so it fits that description. I would then need to get all the smog stuff for that particular motor. I'm not sure that would be very likely =)

 

Hee hee we hijacked this thread.

[Drax240z]

Honestly it doesn't sound like you are getting ripped off, it just depends how much more you have to spend. A V8 swap into a zx is a pretty big job, and there is lots of labour involved. Get a breakdown of the bill thus far and post it up for us. Labour adds up really fast on custom projects.

[Guest garraeth]

Thanks for all the input. Yes, it's all bullsh*t. No, I don't have time/desire to become a car guy (no offense). Yes, I will stop the bleeding -- any of you want to buy it for pennies on the dollar? Give me an offer (dean.higginbotham@oneworldstore.com or dhigginbotham@sitebeater.com or call 949-916-6022). Here are pictures:

http://www.sitebeater.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/ThumbnailView.asp?iGalleryUnq=4

 

It's a f**ken awesome setup. And I've added some to it after those pics were taken: 4-point seatbelts, anti-sway bar in the rear, new door panels, the friggen camaro engine and 6-speed transmission and all that sh*t. It's got all this "racing" suspension, brakes, the works. Over $50k has been dumped into it (not by me - funny thing, the original owner EMBEZZLED the $50k to put into it, yes, he did do time for it). I picked it up for $13.5k and put the $5k into it myself.

 

You buy it, I'll have it trucked out to you and FedEx you the pink slip.

[johnc]

Long story short, he's gotten about $5k into the job and is now stalling.

 

So, between the post above on the 18th and today you've resolved your issues with the mechanic and the car is done? Any pictures of the engine installation? Do you have receipts for the $50K worth of work, your $13.5K purchase, and the $5k you just payed the mechanic? Is the title clean, free and clear of any liens, and in your name?

[Guest garraeth]

No. It's "as-is". The engine and tranny are there (last time I saw them, the engine was sitting in the camaro it originally was taken from and the tranny was in the saran-wrap stuff sitting on the floor), but how far the installation has progressed is unknown. My mechanic tells me the engine and tranny are in, but the exhaust needs to be redone and he hasn't finished that. But like I said, I have no idea if my mechanic is telling me the truth or not.

 

"AS-IS". The stereo system, amp, etc was $4k in-and-of itself. I emailed the original owner to get a list of things he did to it and pics of all the stuff they did. I'll post it here and/or on my sitebeater.com site.

 

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