Workinprogress Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I've been semi-active on this website for a few months now and I've got a question. I have used the search function and didnt get any answers. so here goes. Has anybody used a narrowed late model f-body 10 bolt rear end in their hybrid? I owned an 02 Camaro SS and that rear did just fine, some people had problems but that was due to the weight of the car and engine torque, with a Z, the weight wouldnt be an issue. The reason I'm asking this is, it seems like a 9" is overkill and the IRS that's in our Z's needs $$ to have an LSD installed and converted for the axels and everything. Why couldnt someone buy a used good condition 10 bolt, hub to hub (including disk brakes,) have it narrowed and install it using a 4 link into a Z? In my eyes it would be ideal: Common bolt pattern for modern wide wheels, disk brakes, strong, adjustability from 4 link, and interchangability of LSD or spools. Any comments or am I off on a tangent here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magnum Rockwilder Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I stopped reading at "10-bolt". They're junk. If you're dead-set on GM, the 12-bolt is a better choice, and it HAS been done before. The best choice, in my opinion, is a Ford 8.8. However, the R200 has proven itself capable, and there's always the R230 if you break R200's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workinprogress Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 I think you should keep reading. There are F-bodies in the 10's on the 10 bolt, so that's pretty good junk. That's very good info about the 8.8 also, which year's are good and what is important to look for in them? ie gear ratio's, lsd, disk brakes obviously etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 There are 2 different 10 bolts. The Camaro one is a 7.5" ring gear, and they are pretty weak. Trust me on this one, I used to talk to guys that had destroyed their 7.5's all day long. The truck and full size car 10 bolt is an 8.5" ring gear, better, but still uses c-clip axles and not exactly bullet proof. If you're going to narrow it, try a Moser 12 bolt. Bigger, stronger, and bolt in axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magnum Rockwilder Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I think you should keep reading. There are F-bodies in the 10's on the 10 bolt, so that's pretty good junk. LMAO! Keep "reading"? I've BROKEN 3 10-bolt rear ends! One in my '70 camaro with a mild 305(low 10's in the 1/8 mile), one in an S10 with a 327 (low 8's in the 1/8), and one in a '98 T/A(high 7's in the 1/8, on a 125 shot). All of those were on street tires. Last time I saw an F-body in the 10's on a stock 10-bolt, it was the UTI Camaro with a built LS1, and they went through at least 5 rear ends before they finally swapped to a 12-bolt. Do whatever you want, but don't try to convince me that 10-bolts are worth installing in a high-HP car. It just makes no sense when there are so many other choices. Go to a Mustang site to research the 8.8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workinprogress Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 Magnum Rockwilder, I simply asked for some info. I never stated the 10 bolt was the best diff in the world, I asked a question. If I wanted someone to look down their nose at me about my questions, I'll go to a corvette forum. Also, as you can see from my reply, I'm open to other differentials, I was JUST ASKING A QUESTION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruxGNZ Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hey, come on guys! Play nice. !M! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I'll throw in my $.02 in favor of the 10 bolt chev. Not that they are indestructable, but they arn't total crap. I put on in my V8 RX7, and it held up great. So it was a wussy 305.. I was very abusive on it! However, I bought this 10 bolt from a guy who builds rx7 V8 coversions...he has a jig to weld them up to bolt right in to the stock RX7 4 link... and he has built dozen's of them (V8 coverted RX7's) with BUILT 350 and 383 stroker motors with autos, 4 and 5 gears. He's never had any problems with rear ends breaking. Ussually, he said the clutch lets go, or the tranny breaks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 The 8.5" 10 bolt is as strong as a 12 bolt. They have the same size pinion stem, and the fewer ring gear bolts are a larger diameter. They are also reverse thread so don't require lock washers. Late model ones are also 30 spline same as 12 bolt. The 7.5", 7 5/8" ring gear in the 82-02 Camaro's just aren't strong enough. They will hold up to the stock car-for awhile. They were also used in the S-10 trucks and weren't strong enough for the 2.8 V6. Just about every S10 Blazer you'll ever see has had both the 2.8l and the rear end replaced. Just look for the yellow paint! I've built several 8.5" 10 bolts. One in a low 10 second firebird had over 200 passes on the 4.11's before he decided on 3.70's. ANYTHING running in the 8 or 9 second range will need the gears replaced every year or so if they run it all the time. Some of the 7 second racers do gears several times a season. The soft, impact resistant race gears just don't last very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Just to pick nits I thought the 12 bolt was 8 7/8" ring gear. But it's not the ring and pinion that gives the 12 bolt the advantage IMO. The big advantage to the 12 bolt IMO is the availability of 33 and 35 spline bolt in axles. Since we're talking about narrowing a rear end anyway, might as well step up and get the bolt ins and the bigger splines. IIRC you can get a detroit, spool, or eaton posi for the 33 or 35 spline setups. It's entirely possible that you can do the same for the 10 bolt 8.5, but I don't remember seeing them advertised back when I dealt with this stuff daily. EDIT--I see what you wrote now Mike, pinion DIAMETER is the same. Interesting, and I don't doubt you, but I saw a heck of a lot more axle failures than pinion failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73TPIZ Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Workinprogress, I'm a Chevy guy, but it's hard to beat the ford 8.8 rear. If you go that route, and just for info, the ford explorer rear comes stock with 31 spline axles, but to my knowledge and the knowledge of the guy that cut my rear down, there is no c-clip elim kit for it, just the mustang rears. He cut my housing and one axle (with respline) 7", installed 9" housing ends on it to eliminate the clips, and set up my 3.27 gear for ~$450 complete. Also re-splining the ford axle is something you can't do with chevy axles. A buddy of mine runs a stroker 383 and slicks on his S10 Blazer with the 10 bolt rear. Lasted quite a while but finally busted some teeth on the ring. Got him home but he'll be going 12 bolt soon. Good luck whatever you choose. BTW, my drum brake explorer rear was ~$250 at a local JY. Coulda got a disk rear for ~$350-400. Good Luck whatever route you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Here is a post about my 12 bolt install, maybe it will help: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=71025&highlight=straight+axle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 You can get 33 spline axles for the 8.5 10 bolt as well. I don't think you can do 35's with 10 or 12 bolt can you? Dana 60 would do for 35's. But 30 spline aftermarket axles should be sufficient for any 2600# car. The Firebird rear I built used the 33 spline axles and spool. If you are going to buy all of that stuff anyhow, go for the big stuff. The S-10 axle I did, we narrowed the housing ourselves. We had aluminum pucks made about .003 smaller than the OD of the axle bearings and diff bearings. 1 1/4" hole in the middle and we used a 6' 1 1/4" steel bar as a pilot. With the diff pucks tightened down, made a heck of a jig. Total including the narrowed housing was around $1000 with Eaton posi, 30 spline axles and 3.73 gears. THe diff came from a junkyard. It was in a 74 Trans Am. It had the posi tag on it, but when we got it home discovered the 2.41 gears. We had hoped for 3.23 or 3.42 and would have used the stock diff to save even more $. 3800# truck ran 11 teens on the motor with a 427 small block on pump gas. 94 extended cab truck. You wouldn't believe the driveshaft! Probably 6 1/2' long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 You can get 33 spline axles for the 8.5 10 bolt as well. I don't think you can do 35's with 10 or 12 bolt can you? You're right, I'm on drugs. 30 and 33 spline only for the 12 bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workinprogress Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Thanks for all of the replies and good discussion. The whole reason I was thinking about the late year 10bolt is I can get one hub to hub real inexpensive. However, I am leaning towards the 8.8. I thought I saw a c-clip eliminator kit somewhere on the 'net. 8.8's look real beefy. On another note, anyone have any publications or good info on 4 link setups for the z? Mike Kz, that setup is nice Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Read about c-clip eliminators before you buy them. They suck. Big time. If you're going to narrow the housing anyway, do like 73 TPIZ said and weld 9" outers on it: I'm a Chevy guy, but it's hard to beat the ford 8.8 rear. If you go that route, and just for info, the ford explorer rear comes stock with 31 spline axles, but to my knowledge and the knowledge of the guy that cut my rear down, there is no c-clip elim kit for it, just the mustang rears. He cut my housing and one axle (with respline) 7", installed 9" housing ends on it to eliminate the clips, and set up my 3.27 gear for ~$450 complete. Also re-splining the ford axle is something you can't do with chevy axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workinprogress Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Really? That sucks, but good advice on the 9" outers, should be easy since it will be cut up anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 I am sorry I just about fell over about the broken 10" mated to a "mild" 305 running 10's in the 1/ 8, was that 305 in a tank or was it running on 6 cylinders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magnum Rockwilder Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 I am sorry I just about fell over about the broken 10" mated to a "mild" 305 running 10's in the 1/ 8, was that 305 in a tank or was it running on 6 cylinders? It's 10-bolt, not 10". You aren't making any sense, so please clarify your point. As I stated in the original post, it was in my '79 Camaro (I accidentally typed '70). It had an open exhaust and a 2000rpm stall converter, but was stock otherwise, hence the "mild" part. It ran low 10's at near 70mph. That's equivalent to a mid/high 15 second 1/4 mile at around 87mph. That's about right for a 3500lb car with a <200hp engine. I broke the rear end, AND the TH350 tranny. I ran bracket races every Sunday for 1.5 years. I suppose 400+ 1/8 mile passes along with probably MORE full throttle street launches will do that. So what part of that made you fall over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 He was reading too fast and thought you had said 1/4 mile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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