Guest 73Turbo240z Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Alright, i've been reading up on heads, did a search, googled it... nadda... is there an offering for a roller rocker setup for the P90a heads? or is it strictly replace with nissan rockers, and your choice of cam/valve/valve spring combo? shortblock is almost done, so i'm wrestling with weather or not to mess with this head or just bolt it up stock... anyone wanna chime in on this? i'm gonna start researching weather or not the E88 is worth anything besides being a paperweight in the mean time... this is a turbo motor that is in discussion hear... F54 block, crank, L24 rods, AZ Car forged .040 pistons, ceramic coating on the face, anti friction on the skirts. head options i've been looking at are: Camshaft: Schneider cams: P/N 17034 - 2500-6500rpm - 270-80f grind - 270/280 adv. dur - 232/240 .050" duration - .460" lift - .008/.010 lash - 107 lobe sep... or P/N 17036 - 3000-7000rpm - 290-f grind - 290/290 adv. dur - 250/250 .050" duration - .495" lift - .008/.010 lash - 106 lobe sep... Valve Springs/retainers: Schneider has a matched package for there cams, but they don't give specs, and then there crane cams. Crane Cams Valve springs & titanium retainer kit P/N: 99884-8/12 - Outside diameter 1.304 - Inside diameter 0.980 - Seat pressure 90#@1.650 - Open pressure 230#@1.000 - Coil bind 0.927 - Rate 215 - Max net lift 0.650 Valves: Still up in the air on that, probally going to oversize, but i want to read more about the flow on stock valves vs. oversized ones 1st... ferrea comp plus super alloys or manley severe duty stainless valves... i'm pretty open to ideas here... car will see some drag, mostly top end pulls though, so i don't mind the idle, i figure the turbo i'll be running won't spool till around when the cam gets into it's sweet spot as well, which could be good and bad i suppose, somthing to the effect of riding a bullet right about the time it hits 3-3500 rpm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Well I don't know about the roller rocker setup but you can install the solids from a p90 into the head but it is not worth the hassle. Only problem I see with your setup is that the two cams you listed are listed under the non-turbo applications on schneider website. They look to have too much duration and overlap. Have you thought about grind #17043 or 17044. The specs seem to be alot better for a high boost turbo application. I will be running the #17043 on my turbo swap. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Malvern Racing and D.L.Potter Engineering have both done roller rocker cams for the L series motors. You have to have a lot of money and even more time before you call either one of those guys. I'm a big fan of the cam work that's been done recently by Sunbelt. They've figured out how to reduce the valve spring harmonics, reduce the spring load, and still keep the rocker on the cam lobe. Not quite as low drag as a roller rocker but way more "free" horsepower (i.e. the kind you get by reducing drag, it's been said it eats up 75hp at 5000 rpm just to drive the camshaft on a Z) than a 25 year old Schneider grind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I'd like to get more information about sunbelt's cam grinds. Anyone have their contact info, or more info about this cam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Ok i've been thinking about a roller rocker set up for L6's since I read this thread (actually the idea popped into my head a long time ago but I didn't think twice about it.) can you put roller rockers on a non-roller camshaft? for example, I find some random roller rockers that work off a domestic car or something, and just install them with an aftermarket cam... would it work? I'm not saying I have a roller rocker that works with this setup, but its worth a shot looking for some, right? it's been said it eats up 75hp at 5000 rpm just to drive the camshaft on a Z that is not cool -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73Turbo240z Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I'd say forget about rollers and basically forget about cams until you've optimized your turbo set-up; then look for more h.p. from such things. Stick to the purpose-built components available' date=' i.e., use a factory efi head if you're going to build a turbo engine--the only application for an E88 head would be a small displacement engine if you are going turbo--otherwise the c.r. is too high. My recommendation is forget about the hair splitting and pick up an L28ET complete. add BOV and intercooler, bump up boost, and then put your money into bigger brakes. DAW[/quote'] already there... L28ET.... F54 block, P90a head... forged AZ pistons, coatings, polished L24 rods, all blueprinted/balanced. All coupled with Isuzu large NPR, Aeromotive Tsunami, 13-15 gallon dual type fuel cell, holsett HX35Y or 60-1 race ver. turbo, coatings on all the exhaust side stuff, MSD 6AL + MegaSquirt, AZ car flywheel, AZ car pulleys, AZ car 60mm adapter, 60mm TB, JSK fuel rail, SVO injectors... this is the motor i was investigating my rollerized options for, i'm not doing anything w/ the L24/E88 except tearing it down to part out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I spent some time a couple of years ago down at a cylinder head shop helping out... Anyway, the closest thing we found were roller rockers for a Ford Ranger (I believe), but you had to move the rocker arm pivots slightly more toward the center or the head (I think it was only about an 1/8 of an inch or so), to keep proper rocker arm geometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 can you put roller rockers on a non-roller camshaft? for example' date=' I find some random roller rockers that work off a domestic car or something, and just install them with an aftermarket cam... would it work? I'm not saying I have a roller rocker that works with this setup, but its worth a shot looking for some, right? -Oliver[/quote'] No, totally changes the opening and closing profile. Roller cams have to be ground for a roller rocker to achieve the vlalve event shape you're looking for. Sunbelt: 770) 932-0160. Malvern: 804) 971-9668. I'll do you all a favor and not supply Potter's number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I believe Malvern is gone. That phone number is disconnected and their website is gone, apparently the guy who knew all the answers died. They were extremely helpful the few times I talked to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Ok the idea of a roller rocker seems kind of like an unobtainable ideal... So, for the future, when i have the money to do it, and so that I can start acquiring information about it now, does anyone have any good links to camshaft profile website that would help in making a roller camshaft based off a non-roller? I'm thinking a custom made billet piece... Rocker arms seem like something that would have to be made on autocad and sent off to a machine shop with cnc capabilities, and again would have to be based off the dimensions of the original rocker arms. Of course this set up would only make sense if I used Kameari chain tensioner kit as well. These are all plans, I'm not planning on doing anything soon. Just looking for some more info on the subject. -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Roller rockers for the L6 is pipe dream. Dave Weber (the owner of Malvern) passed about a year ago, lost a battle with cancer. He did try to develop a roller set up, but was unsuccessfull. They wouldn't last for more than one race weekend. His words were something like "a terribly expensive failure". I think they went for about $200 a rocker too. I'd like to hear more about the Sunbelt cams. What lift/duration(s), and prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FEnatic Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 what about the Ford Ranger roller cams? I used one in my turbo coupe, overhead cam similar to the L28. Just and idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffp Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Yes it is correct that sunbelt , and JWT for that matter have developed a cam rocker, spring combination that had a 70 psi seat pressure. As some of you pointed out the drag on the engine created by the valve train is significant. A good test to do for yourself is to turn an engine over with a 1/2" drive ratchet and then disconnect the cam and see how easy it becomes to turn the engine over. Anyway, the sunbelt and JWT setup is a good design, however the setup will cost you about 600.00 for cam, springs, and spring retainers. The one thing that made me pass on that setup is that you can only go 7200 rpm's withoug getting valve float. Sounds like more then enough right. Well in the perfect world that is very acceptable, however, have you ever missed a shift and hit a gear that was not the correct gear, do you remember what happened to the tach? The 7200 rpm level is easily surpassed in that situation, and myself, I have done that one time, guess what, it only takes one time and you have a piece of junk on your hands. So I went with the Isky solution, with a twist, and that is what I am going to run. The roller idea, well I have been thinking about that myself, having been in the roller cam/rocker field in my earlier years with Sig Erson I got a good amount of exposure to what works, and what doesn't and I believe I could design a roller setup that would work. Maybe one day I will do a setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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