datsunlover Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Well it was a HUGE problem, and I had to throw money at it non stop for 3 days, but the ol L28 actually fired up and ran tonite!! Looking back on the past few days, it's almost funny.. (if not for all the STRESS I have and money I've spent..) Here's a rundown on all the 'issues' I've had; Motor is 2 months late from the re-builder get it in the car, hook evrything up and... Starter is shot; replace ($110) No start; replace old dead coil ($40) Iratic spark, fuel issues.. 2 days of chasing this leads to the discovery of the timing chain being improperly set (markes not aligned correctly..??) Guy who rebuild motor is here for this... Take cam gear off, find sheared alignment pin Pull front cover (to get tensioner back in place) find chiped balancer, wrecked oil slinger and front seal. again, Get new oil seal ($5, $10 gas to drive 40 mins to GET the thing..) , discard oil slinger, JB weld balancer (for now, I'll get a new one asap. it's just where it rides on the oil seal) put front of motor back together. Now the battery is shot. Just doesn't have the cranking current. Guy leaves (had to go back to the city), I go buy new battery. I'm cranking a gear reduction 280zx starter, turning a freash 9.5:1 c/r engine with a hotter cam... wont start, have to crank over a lot.. 1050 cranking amps should do it... Now it gets really interesting.. No start. Discover the guy re-instaled the oil pump/dizzy drive shaft about 90* retarded. As I'm fixing this, my girlfriends father (who is now giving me a hand) says "Hey.. wtf is this all about?" I crawl out from under the car and look... The rocker arms are about.. oh.. .060 - .070 AWAY from the cam lobes!!!! One of the little round pieces the rocker is suposed to push on the valve with, is GONE!! I find it next to another valve in the bottom of the head... omfg... SO; We set the valves to .020/.025, hook up the plug wires and VAROOOMM!!! She fires on the first crank!!! I still owe the engine builder a bit of $$$.. I don't think I should give it to him. Hell.. I spent at LEAST the amount owed in new parts, gas $$ driving around GETTING new parts plus the 30 hours I put in this weekend on something I was PAYING HIM to do in the first place.. Oh well. At least it runs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73Turbo240z Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 keep us updated on this story, i'd like to see how it plays out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everDATSUN Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 dude that sucks, if i were you i wouldnt pay the rest to him, and i would def. advertise his poor skills all over the place. what is the valve clearance when hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 HA. POS... Well, it DOES run, BUT; on ONLY THREE CYLINDERS!!! GRRR.... I got her going and warmed up tonite, and didn't think much of the rough idle and what not.. New cam, carbs need to be set, you know.. I notice LOTS of coolant evrywhere.. coming mostly from between the head and block. Insert apropriate curse words here... so I torque the head bolts properly, (They were at about 30foot pounds) and start it again. It seams a bit better, so I shut it off after it was up to a good temp, and adjusted the valves. .025 intake, .030 exhast. Ok.. fire it up again, fiddle with timing and crabs.. hmm.. chokes are off, timming isn't to far off.. can't get rid of this stumble and miss.. I know ther's fuel, my eyes are burning after a few minits.. Check spark, all is good. My friend who is helping me figures we should check the plugs, and then the compresion.. Ok, might as well.. # 6 plug looks like it's been sitting in a can of gas. So we get the compresion tester out.. Holy CRAP this is bad. Goes like this; #1 150 psi #2 0 psi (thats right, ZERO!) #3 0 psi (WTF?!?) #4 150 psi #5 150 psi #6 0 psi (you have to be kidding me..) And the damn thing RUNS!!! I can get about 3000 rpm out of her too! Can't get a hold of the engine builder on his phone.. I see NO reason to give him the rest of the $$$ I 'owe' him at this point.. In fact, I think he should give me some back.. not like thats gona happen though. I am about ready to give up on this.. I know where there is a good running 305 (carb) and auto (350th, just rebuilt) I can have for $50. I drove the car (88 caprice) 2 weeks ago, I know it's a decent powertrain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73Turbo240z Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 i'd say crack the head off and check to see if there are even piston rings in those cylinders... that's fkn nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technicalninja Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Look for bent valves from the cam mis-timing. Bring a cylinder to TDC. (piston top of bore/ cam lobes up and blow compressed into spark plug hole. have helper listen at exhaust pipe and intake. I would not pay him any more money and I would not let him touch it again either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 yep, I would try for some compressed air in the cylinders that have "0" compression and do a leakdown check. Find out where it's coming out... I wouldn't crack anything open until contacting the builder with the update and get his take on it IN WRITING. Normally two cylinders adjacent with low compression is indicative of a blown head gasket channelling between the cylinders but that third one in there makes me think of either bent valves, or a valve job so bad, the exhaust seats aren't sealing (akin to bent vavles). So I would keep from starting it until that leakdown test is performed! Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Well either way, I got a head gasket set on order, and I'm trying to track down some head bolts.. Still can't get a hold of this guy, but I'm sure he'll be wanting the rest of his $$$ so you'd think he'll be trying to get in touch with ME. I want him to see it and hear it run for a minit before I rip it apart. I'll let him to the compresion test and go through all the checks I've already done 3 times. I was woried about bent valves from the begining of this fiasco, and this guys kept saying "Nah, the clearances are so tight, you'd hear if the valves were bent. It wouldn't hardly turn over" I'm not so sure.. Either way, If he comes good for it, its STILL more time waiting for parts, and STILL questionable workmanship. I figure for all the effort I have put into this (and remember I gave it to him so I would NOT have to put this effort in) and extra $$$ spent on my part, I'll just use the rest of the money I had set aside to pay him to buy some parts to do it myself. I'll be 'out' time I wasn't planing on spending, but at least I won't be out too much more $$$ than I'd already budgeted for. I think at this point, he only way he will get the motor again is if I give it back to him (striped of any parts of value; carbs/intake, dizzy, polished valve cover, alternator, ect) to use it for a boat ankor.. big paper weight... or something. You know, so I can do that V8 conversion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 Heh.. Well, guy shows up here a few hours after I posted that last message. Funny how people show up when you talk about them... So we go through the compresion test again. He sighs and he sais "Hmm...$hit" So off comes the head. Well well.. look here.. #'s 2 3 and 6 ALL have bent valves, and little hits on the pistons. On the plus side, the head gasket looked to be still good, and the pistons arn't tottaled, just a little dinged. He's gone to his shop as I type this to get some good valves (out of the other head I gave him, had no seals left in it but valves/ect are fine) and fix the thing up. Should be back together tonite, and fired up tomorrow when I get home from work. Well, after I pick up my truck from the shop. Blew a brake line tonite. (Only AFTER I spent $150 re-newing my drivers licence and getting plate stickers. Figures..) So hopefully it'll run on all 6 cylinders tomorrow, and I can be driving the stupid thing this weekend. Oh yah... I'm still not paying him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rick458 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 have you checked your bottom end?or are you positive the cam missalignment was the only cause for the bent valves? lots of bad JUJU so far better check it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeiss150 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Hey when you bend the valves cant you mess up the valve stem guides too!! also setting your valves to .025 thou intake .030thou exaust is way to loose ... they should be at .010 intake and .012 exause HOT! some people even use 8 and 10. Sound like you're about to put a silver bullet in the block of this L6 (really the only way to kill an L6 engine) sorry you're haveing a bad time of it. I hope my 2 cents helps. Rock on Z people Matt- P.S. Or maybe you should put a silver bullet in your engine builder instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Wholly Crap!!!!!!!!! unbelievable. Is the engine builder;s name MURPHY? Damn that sux bud....hang in there. CZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Wholly Crap!!!!!!!!! unbelievable. Is the engine builder;s name MURPHY? Damn that sux bud....hang in there. CZ Wasn’t this the guy whose old lady took his house, tools and your engine? You can bet his mind was not at the task at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Hey when you bend the valves cant you mess up the valve stem guides too!! also setting your valves to .025 thou intake .030thou exaust is way to loose ... they should be at .010 intake and .012 exause HOT! Watch the units - I was assuming that he meant 0.25 and 0.30 mm (not inches), which is roughly the same as 0.010" and 0.012". Also, as I recall the 8 and 10 thousanths clearances are for a cold engine, not a hot one (clearances get larger with temperature). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Holy Crap! I get depressed just reading this thread. What a nightmare! I also know mechanics like your "engine builder" guy. Lemme guess, his tool set consists of a worn channel-lock, a hammer, a length of pipe, and a large flat screwdriver with the end all bashed from being hammered. HANG IN THERE DOOD, I FEEL FOR YOU!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Well, it apears to be all in order now. I don't think the bottom end will be an issue.. I'm positive the cam misalignment was the root of all my problems. Guy told me thinks its possible he aligned the timing marks as if it was a GM V8, IE; crank up cam down. Bang. He came over and spend all day yesterday puting it back together while I was at work (my girlfriends father was here with him the whole time) When I got home he tells me he had to leave and come back 3 or 4 times to get tools, two new bolts, sealent to reaseal the front cover (cause he droped the chain and the tentioner poped out again. heh) Bla bla... So we do a compresion test first thing and get 150psi on all 6. He had to go cause some guy was calling him every 10 minits about HIS motor, that has yet to be built. Poor guy.. I know what's coming for him.. Anyway after the engine builder left, a friend showed up and we got evrything back on the engine last night. Aside from a minor gas spray (missed a hose clamp) it fired right up. Only ran for a minit though, it was 11:30 at night, and REALLY LOUD with just the 2 foot pipe off the manifold. Runs great when all 6 pistons are getting fire!! I'll re-check the valve lash before I do the 'real' warm up and break in tomorrow or saturday. Although, if it's too loose, I can't see any mechanical damage occuring.. the valves just won't open as far as they should.. And now that I think about it, I should probly LOOSEN them a bit.. don't want it to heat up and end up holding valves open.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted May 8, 2005 Author Share Posted May 8, 2005 Well she's alive and burbling. Did the warm up/cam break in thing, re-tourqed evrything and changed the oil. (another few weeks and I'll do it all again and put synthetic in it) Took it out for a rip with no hood, got some weird looks, and a big smile on MY face. Still trying to tune the carbs a bit, I think I'll have to go to diffrent needles (too rich on botom end, seams like it goes lean at higher rpms) but wow she's got some go now! Pretty much the same car as last year (well, a little smoother) till 3000rpm then the exhast tone changes and it really starts to move! Sounds like a race car.. damn it's loud! Only isues I'm having is a 'run on' after shut down. Timing is about 10*, idle is only about 800rpm, but as soon as I turn off the key it pops and diesel's for a few seconds... bad gas maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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