80LS1T Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 to get my car ready for body work. I have no clue on where to even start when it comes to body work. I dont know if I need to strip my car to bare metal or if I can just sand it down and paint over it? I know that my car has never been painted over the factory paint. I also know that there is a small amount of filler in the rear quarter panels(just found that out last summer). Basically Im sick of wainting for people who say they are going to help me paint my car but keep putting it off. So I would like to attemp to atleast get the car in primer and body kit attached. Then I will have someone do the actual painting because I am using a House of Kolor paint and I dont want to mess it up with lack of experiece. So whats a good way to start with this project? What kind of tools will I need? Thanks, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Get ready for some serious elbow grease!! If your car still has the original paint (IE, no subsequent coats), and the body is straight, then do not take it down to bare metal. If the filler was done properly, then don't worry about it. Get a DA sander (air driven), and sone sanding blocks and a flexible rubber sanding block and a bunch of 320 grit paper. (you will need a good size compressor for the DA if you don't want to stop every 10 minutes for the compressor to catch up. My 5hp (peak) 20 gal really had a tough time. I now have a 60 gal, 7hp (peak, 5hp run) which has no problem. Clean the car well with degreaser (from the paint store). Then get sanding. When it is all sanded, shoot it with a catalyzed primer surfacer. Sand with 400 grit prior to shooting color. (BTW, I am right in the middle of repainting the 71 Cheyenne 20 in the driveway, so this is fresh in my mind). Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted May 28, 2005 Author Share Posted May 28, 2005 Ok well my brother who is a painter on the side said that I should take it down to bare metal due to the kind of paint that was used way "back in the day", something about how the new paint wont stick as well if its not taken down to bare metal and started over from square one? Does this mean anything to anyone? Well as for the filler, I would like to do it over because where it was painted over the paint didnt stick very good. The paint is very hazy and looks like orange peal. My brother said it is probably because a "plastic filler" was used? Yeah I really need a different compressor if I decied to do this because the little 10 gallon 3HP unit just aint going to cut it! I really want a new one anyway so that it will keep up with my regular air tools....impact wrench, drill, die grinder, air ratchet, etc! Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted May 28, 2005 Author Share Posted May 28, 2005 Oh and just how far do I want to take it down if Im not going to take it down to bare metal? Just to the primer coat? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Just enough to knock down the shine and give the primer some bite surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinhZXT Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 When I painted my car I used the air craft remover from Pepboys to take off the old paint. Just brush it on and let it sits for 5 minutes then scrape the paint off. That should take it down to the factory zinc coat but not bare metal. That 's what I would do and suggest you to do the same thing. When you take down the paint you can find rusts under the paint also. This is when you take care of those small rust spots just started under the paint and the body filling. Then prime the whole car and wet sand with 600 grit. Keep using "guide coat" as you wet sand. Repeat the primer step if needed until everything smooth out. For painting the car that's another big lesson.. GL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Ok well my brother who is a painter on the side said that I should take it down to bare metal due to the kind of paint that was used way "back in the day"' date=' something about how the new paint wont stick as well if its not taken down to bare metal and started over from square one? Does this mean anything to anyone? Well as for the filler, I would like to do it over because where it was painted over the paint didnt stick very good. The paint is very hazy and looks like orange peal. My brother said it is probably because a "plastic filler" was used? Yeah I really need a different compressor if I decied to do this because the little 10 gallon 3HP unit just aint going to cut it! I really want a new one anyway so that it will keep up with my regular air tools....impact wrench, drill, die grinder, air ratchet, etc! Guy[/quote'] I may only b 16, but i take classes at a technical school, and am on my way to being certified as an Automotive Painter/Body Tech.....i've done all sorts of cars, but they use the same technique. Pretty much everything the Tim said is correct, or atleast thats how i've been taught for the past year. I've painted an old 80's beemer, so the paint can't b that far off from wht nissan used(ie, type of stuff in the paint) You DO NOT need to get it down to bare metal-if u scuff the old paint off with 320-then it will have enough of a rough surface for the primer to "bite" into. The reason the filler messed up your paintjob, is because, the previous painter probly didn't use any primer, they may have just painted over the filled surface-paint really doens't like to stick to anything(except primer, it will eventually run off of most other surfaces.) Wht u do, as Tim said, get a WHOLE LOT of 320 grit sandpaper, a DA sander, and sum sanding blocks. Start with the DA(with 320 grit, of course) Get as much of the shine off as possible with the DA, you are gonna have to move onto using sanding blocks, and even hand sand it. Every now and then, look at the car from diffrent angles, if you see any glossy or shiney spots, go over that part of the car again-if its shiney, then it means its not scuffed enough, and the primer may not like to stick to it. Make sure to get EVERY nook and cranny. It is all right if you do end up getting parts of the car down to bare metal....it happens, its not a big deal, because the primer will help that anyways. If your car has any rust, this is the time to fix it-weld in patch panels, and then smooth then sand them down like the rest of the car. Once your car is all dull looking, mayb even sum bare metal-mix and spray your primer, go over everything evenly-you don't have to get a professionaly to do this part, cuz even if you screw up, you'll end up sanding the primer anyway. Just spray it on, and get the car so it looks like ONE uniform color. Now you have to sand, again. This is where you can get the runs out of your paint if you messed up on the priming. Get 400 grit sandpaper, i perfer the black stuff, they do make a yellow one too, the only diffrence is that the black stuff is wet/dry, meaning you can wetsand, wich usually leaves a smoother finish, you don't go through as many pieces of sandpaper-but you do all this by hand, or with blocks. VinhZXT said to use a guide coat, i wouldn't reccomend doing that on a full car, as opposed to a panel, just becuase if you use a guide coat, it does help with hi-lo spots, but it also gets you to sand to much. You just want to get it smooth, it has to feel almost like glass. If there is any hi-low spots, dont worry because the paint and clear will have enough depth to cover all that, specially if you say that the person who is gonna paint this is a professional-so he shouldn't have any problems with this. Now that you have all the scratches out of your primer, its time for paint(if you do it yourself.) Mix your paint and then shoot it on the car, get in all the nooks and crannys, do not screw up this part, because you cant really wetsand the color coat-u can if you want, but its not reccomended-because the clear doesn't like to stick to many things, except paint and usually the paint isn't really smooth, and things you don't want it to stick to(like your clothes) Everytime you wetsand the paint, your gonna have to repaint it again(more paint=more money) Now that your done with the painting, you move onto the clearcoat, put a few layers of this on, because this is wht protects your paint. After the first 3-5 coats, wetsand it with 400(black)-this will take out all the hi-low spots-now buff it and wax it. Im too lazy to get into details with buffing and waxing, nor do i have a great intrest in this part, because of this whole proccess, this is the part i like the least. Hope this helps, can we make this a sticky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQR280Z Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Guy, Listen to the advise you are being given, it's good stuff. If the old paint is sticking to the metal...it's a good bond and will work fine for the base under your new paint. Use a sealing primer and you are good to go. The bigger compressor and air DA are the standard fare for body work but recently I have changed over to electric DA's. I have a 6HP/60 gallon compressor but thought why run this thing just to sand, plus without a good drier system it's spitting water and oil all over your surface. There are lots of electric orbital sanders available for $35, you may have to change the sanding pad so you can use stik-it disks. If you need some help give me a yell, I'd like to see your project. Got my Z back on the road just in time for the Clintonville car show, took 1st in import class. Next week is New London. The new cam, and head are great. Added a Mallory HyFire VI ignition too. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted May 30, 2005 Author Share Posted May 30, 2005 Wow I pretty much have a step by step process to get my beast into primer! Now what about attaching those body kit parts? I have the MSA 2 Aero kit(fiberglass). Do I get the whole car into primer then attach those parts? Also what about the few dings I do I have in the car. None of them are major. What should I use as a filler and how far should I take those spots down?(what does filler bond to good?) I will have my drivetrain back in very shortly and then I will begin this process! Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 well, get the dings and dents out as best you can, then just use plastic filler. After you do that, if your using fiberglass, this is wht i did with a honda i painted-wht u do is take the fiberglass off, and prime it with a primer made for fiberglass, then use scotchbright pads and an abrasive of around 2000(equivalent to a 2000 grit sandpaper, except its a liquid(you can get it at just about any paint store.....i use Chroma 2000)) Spray the fiberglass with the hose, then put sum of the abrasive on the scotchbrite pad, and goto town, do this untill the surface is smooth and dull. Then put the car together(if this is how u wanna paint it), and paint everything at once-as long as its primed, then the paint should stick, if you really wanna feel ripped off, you can paint the fiberglass with a SPECIAL fiberglass paint, and paint it with that....it may last longer, it may not-besides that, good luck getting the color to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Hey Bill, I saw your car on Main Street in Clintonville today! I was just passing through on the way home. Sure did look purdy! As for using the filler...do I put the filler over the top of the primer? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Ummm... Well I disagree with some things said here... and what school are you attending savageskaterkid because they should have taught you about the older lacquer paints. As mentioned no it is not necessary to take down to bare metal unless you just want the bragging rights of it later on. However.. in the area with body filler.. I would take it down to the filler or primer if there is any since you said it doesn't look like it's sticking. I would scuff the old paint with some 250 or 350.. whatever you want. You just want to give the paint something to stick too. Then you will need to put down some sort of Epoxy Sealer otherwise the older paint will bleed through and crackle and spider web your pretty house of kolor paint. Then scuff the sealer and lay down primer... sand the primer till the body is smooth you DO NOT want any "his and lows" this WILL show through in color and clear. Primer is your friend and much cheaper than color and clear... sand your primer but do NOT go through the sealer coat (the epoxy based paint) Also after scuffing the old paint.. you can use reg lacquer thinner to clean the car.. works just as good as ANY degreaser. Just move quickly as you dont' want to make the paint "mushy" the lacquer thinner WILL eat the paint if your not careful. Once you degrease... 100% rubbing alcohol or as high as you can get.. works really well as a "prep all" just make sure you wipe it on and off. Make sure everything stays clean.. you dont' want any monkey wrench fingers touching your car now. Then the system usually goes depending on shade of color, 2-3 coats color, 2-3 coats clear unless your doing show thend you can almost double the clear. Sanding the color can be done if you have runs.. don't freak. Hit it with some 600 wet take the runs out and smooth the paint out.. wait for it to dry.. clean with rubbing alcohol, then spray the color again. Most 2 stage systems are applied "wet on wet" meaning you apply the clear on the color while it is still wet, they chemically adhear to each other and bond much better this way. I usually spray color.. let if flash for about 30 min.. spray another let it dry for 30-60 min depending on ambient temp, then clear, I wait longer between clear applications as you can put too much on too fast and the paint can't breathe and you'll get funky results when it all starts to dry out. But if your brothers doing it.. don't worry about half of this post. Honestly though.. if you can spray primer.. you can spray color. Practice with the primer, it's cheaper, and you have to sand it anyway. -Ed EDIT.. Yes.. you put the filler OVER the primer. That is the way I do it.. however.. some guys will tell you to put it on the bare metal.. whatever you do.. DO NOT put bondo on bare metal I repeat DO NOT PUT BONDO ON BARE METAL. If you are going to put fillers on bare metal.. I recomend fiberglass re-inforced fillers (usually waterproof) or marine fillers.. (usually waterproof as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 Well in 2 weeks I should be starting the body work! I need some recommendations on equipment and a primer... What kind of sander should I get, like how big of a DA sander? What types/grits of sand paper should I get for the DA and for hand sanding? And what brand/kind of primer do you guys recommend for my House of Kolor paint? I have a silver base coat so I assume I should use a gray primer? Thanks guys! Guy EDIT........... Ok I have been doing some reading on HVLP guns and sanders..... Seems like for shooting primer that a lot of guys are using the gun kit from "northern tool"...Titan 4-Pc. HVLP Triple Setup Spray Gun Kit $140. And for a sander I was thinking of this.... Its just a generic sander by Northern Tool. I really dont want to spend $200 on a sander that wont really be used much. This one is only $90. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I got that paint gun set on sale at Northern for $89. If you can afford to wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 Yeah I did some more searching on Google and found the set cheaper at "Brandsplace.com" for $101.95 with free shipping. I am going to Harbor Freight today to see what they have. Is there anything special about these palm sanders that I need to know. Seems like they vary from $70-$200. Whats the differnece between a $70 sander and a $200 sander? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 Well Harbor Freight didnt have anything that caught my eye. I am going to get those paint guns from Brandsplace.com and I still dont know what I should get for a sander. Im going to talk to one of the tool guys that comes to my work and see what he's got. I never though a sander would cost so much! Ok now what about a primer? What kind should I get? I want to get it through work so that I can get it at cost. So I just need to tell them what I need and they will get it for me. I dont want to go into the paint store and say "yeah what do I need and then say ok I'll have the parts guys at work order it for me so that I dont have to pay retail" LOL Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I have the Titan set(s). One, I got on eBay for less than $100 delivered, and the other from Midway Auto Supply (?)...one more gun and even cheaper! I pretty much think of them as disposable for the money that they cost, and for a novice they will be just fine. Parts (different tip sizes, filters, etc.) are also reasonably available from Titan, whereas Harbor Freight is impossible to get parts from. Do a search under "Titan" here.. As for the DA, one of the critical figures in the pricing and for your needs will be the cfm requirements of the sander. The higher the number, the better the compressor volume that you will need, the lower the number of cfm the less air demand it will have. Cheap DAs usually have very high cfm requirements. As for painting techniques, prep, etc. there are alot of great, informative websites out there that will tell you basically everything that you need to know step-by-step for FREE, just spend some time 'surfing'. You might also PM 'RacerX' as he is pretty much the 'go to' guy on this forum. Although Tim240Z pretty much covered it all. Last little tidbit, if you are spending the big $$ for House of Kolor material and you are a novice painter, experiment ALOT while shooting your primer coats, you don't want to be 'figuring out' your technique on $200/gallon paint. Also, make sure that the Sealer and Catalyzed Primers that you use will be compatible, as well as compatible with the paint (i.e. be careful mixing-n-matching brands or product lines). My .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 I am not going to be shooting the paint. I am going to have a pro do it. I just want to handle the steps up to the actual color. All the prep work I can do and learn as I go. I dont trust myself either with the HOK paint as I hear it takes a pretty good painter to make it look even. If it was a solid color I would attempt to paint it myself. As for the sander, Im not too concerned with how much air it will consume. I have a new 2 stage compressor that puts out 17 scfm's with an 80 gallon tank. So air supply shouldnt be an issue. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Yup, your compressor will pretty much drive any tool that you put on it..... Another suggestion: Get different colored primers/sealers (e.g. Red Oxide & Gray or Black & 'Buff'). That way it will be much easier to stop sanding before going into lower level material. Also, use ALOT of 'guidecoats' (rattle can 'misting' over the panel) for your blocksanding. When you've sanded the guidecoat off, spray on more, sand more. Then, spray on more primer surfacer and repeat. Oh, take about 600-800 mg of Ibuprofen BEFORE your 'Blocksanding Day'...your shoulders will thank you for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huwwatki Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 hey probably a bit late, but: I've been round the workshop a lot working on my Z and the prep work for the paint is taking ages, (i took it all the way back to bare metal and have built up from there). Now, I'm by no means an expert but the workshop has (arguably) the best Z panel and paint man around in it. and one of his little gems of wisom, was that the more surfaces/layers there are, the more layers can fail. On their quick jobs they just sand it really thoroughly, but for a full car job, it's worth blasting and doing a bit more work, you'll end up with a better car. just my opinion and observations........just wish i could finish painting my bloody one!!! Huw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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