tranny question

[innerware]

my new 77 280Z has a different starter to it than my 78. The bellhousing looks different too. I have also read that a 78-83 5 speed will still bolt up to the 77 motor. Is this right? What else has to be replaced for this to work? The car is a 4 speed and I want to put a 5 speed in it. I will be using my driveshaft from my 78 as it is the new one from msa with removable ujoints. The driveshaft should be the same too right? I am a ways off of pulling the tranny and motor but want the info to start looking for parts. I started the body work yesterday, and it is oh so fun to have a Z to take your time on and not be rushing to get something done on it so you can drive it to work etc.

 

Thanks all,

Kyle

[datsunlover]

This may or may not help.. On my 75 280z, I had the original starter and 4 speed. I swaped a KA 5 speed on, but that swap retains the stock 280z bellhousing. Then, the stock starter decided to fry. Local parts store couldn't get me a replacement (discontinued) so I got one for an 83 280zx. High torque model, 2 year warenty, and it fits right on. My guess is that you're alright with whatever starter you have, it'll bolt up.

[RedNeckZ]

The five speed transmisson is an easy switch to do. It is mostly a bolt-in. The best transmission to use is the 280ZX 5-speed. It has the best geared ratio for our car. Make sure that you get the collar and bearing that comes with the trans. There are a few different sizes out there. I know I have four different ones here now (if you have the wrong size you will not be able to shift it properly, it will not push the clutch in far enough). I used a five speed drive shaft. But others have used the four speed shaft with out problem. Just make sure every thing rotates freely after you install and tighten it down. Another good add-on is the higher geared rearend. With the 280ZX transmission you can run a 3:54 or a 3:90 R200 rearend in it. It will help get you off the line quicker (best for performance). Good Luck with it, Rich.

[RedNeckZ]

Forgot to inform you, that the shifter in the 280ZX will be moved forward in the Z car and may require that you cut the body and centre console. I had to cut both. I also had to turn the shifter around 180 degrees from where it was before. In the old position it would hit the radio when shifting into the upper gears. Now it sits far enough away from it that you will not hit your hands. You can have the shifter heated up and bent if you want. Speedo gearing for the transmission is also depending on what gearing you will be going with in the rearend. On this site and others, you can find the conversion for the transmission (different color gears will change the speed to what you will need). Sorry about that.

[Here comes trouble]

Datsun Lover and Redneck offer sound advice...... What bears repeating....obtain the replacement 5 speed's throwout bearing if not also pressure plate (dowel hole difference) and (larger) clutch and flywheel if from a 2+2 model.. You should avoid the (T5) Borg Warner 5 speeds in the turbo zx s since it is a different length.

[Tony D]

Datsun Lover and Redneck offer sound advice...... What bears repeating....obtain the replacement 5 speed's throwout bearing if not also pressure plate (dowel hole difference) and (larger) clutch and flywheel if from a 2+2 model[/u'].. You should avoid the (T5) Borg Warner 5 speeds in the turbo zx s since it is a different length.

 

My advice would be to keep whatever throwout and pressure plate combination you have in your current transmission if it is servicable.

 

Personally I sap over to L28 Components on everything I have, but this thing about the throwout collar following the tranny is a dangerous myth. The throwout collar is mated to the pressure plate it is used with. The throwout arm geometry, pivot ball, and collar guide are all the same.

 

It's not the tranny that determines what throwout bearing collar you need to use, it's the diaphragm srping height on the pressure plate!

 

Check out the LD28, because of it's thicker flywheel, the collar (though it's a five speed of late manufacture) uses the early 240 collar with a later 280 style diaphragm! Confused? Maybe I shouldn't bring that up, but it bears repeating that the clutch cover you use is what has to have a compatible throwout bearing collar.

 

As long as you either use all the PP/TO components from the existing setup, or from the donor setup, you will do fine!

 

Start swapping things around, and you will pay a price in another tranny removal because the tranny either won't go INTO gear (collar too short for pressure plate) or wont move (collar too long for pressure plate)...

 

With that, you know know what to expect if you go wrong in the selection of mismatch components! LOL

[preith]

Forgot to inform you, that the shifter in the 280ZX will be moved forward in the Z car and may require that you cut the body and centre console. I had to cut both. I also had to turn the shifter around 180 degrees from where it was before. In the old position it would hit the radio when shifting into the upper gears. Now it sits far enough away from it that you will not hit your hands. You can have the shifter heated up and bent if you want. Speedo gearing for the transmission is also depending on what gearing you will be going with in the rearend. On this site and others, you can find the conversion for the transmission (different color gears will change the speed to what you will need). Sorry about that.

 

The '79 280ZX trans is the "a" model, the same as in the '77 and '78, and not disirable.

 

The 4 speed shifter arm will work in later trans.

[b__sosick]

what's undesirable about the "a" model?

 

I have a 79 5 spd :[

[preith]

what's undesirable about the "a" model?

 

I have a 79 5 spd :[

 

I'm a bit surprised by this thread, this stuff is old news. You can probably find all the info with a search.

 

I should have said less desirable. The "a" model has ratio's which aren't as close as the "b", with a larger gap between 2nd and 3rd. With that said, I had a '77 with the "a" trans and didn't mind it too much.

 

 

77-79 1980 81-83

 

1 3.321 3.062 3.062

2 2.077 1.858 1.858

3 1.308 1.308 1.308

4 1.000 1.000 1.000

5 0.864 0.773 0.745

[b__sosick]

i haven't driven it for more than a cumalative hour yet so i can't really say anything positive. or negative about it yet.2&3rd do seem a little bit spacey from each other though

[innerware]

Thanks again for all the great info. I was mostly looking for info like: why the starter was different in the 77 and if the flywheel etc was diff. From what I have gleamed to be true all the trannies will fit with some work, and the A tranny isn't the most desirable. I will look for a later 83 tranny and I will be sure to use all the PP/TO components from the existing setup, or from the donor setup, like stated below. But does anyone know why the starter is different and why it would be if the number of teeth on the flywheel are the same? Did they just use a different manufacturer for that year?

 

Anyway, thanks again,

Kyle

[JMortensen]

On the ZX they went to a gear reduction starter. It is smaller and saves weight, but other than that I see no advantage to it. I've personally used 240, 280, and ZX starters on my Zs over the years. I think I even had a 510 starter on my first Z. They all work. I think the ZX has an advantage in that it is more compact and lightweight, but it is also supposedly the most prone to problems.

 

All Z flywheels have the same number of teeth AFAIK.

[Tony D]

Wierd Reasons for the gear reduction starter. To be honest, the reason had to do with the starter drawing the voltage down too far causing glitching in the ECU.

The Reduction Starter allows for cranking when cold, with lots of accessories on, and still maintaining 9VDC for marginal operation of the electrical systems.

 

Little known fact...

 

Trivia from Keepers Of Odd Knowledge Society...

[technicalninja]

TonyDs is correct that the later GR starter was applied for F.I. starting glitches but it created a starter with all sorts of torque that is good enough that most of the high end GR starters for wild V8s are based on this unit even to the point that many of them are actual Nippon-Denso and Hitachi units.

Z trannys from mid 71 through late 83 will interchange with basically no major issues. exceptions are 70-mid 71 removable bell housing and ZX Turbo 5spds (Borg-Warners).

All 70-83 z starters will interchange with no issues at all.

If I had to purchase a rebuilt one I would definitely buy a GR style but using any style from any year will work fine.

 

Only mod you will have to do to change over to a mid 80-83 NA ZX tranny is to put the speedometer drive gear from you original tranny in the later housing. The housings are different between early and late. You need the correct housing for the tranny but the inner gears are interchangable after removing a small roll pin. You should replace small seal inside housing when you have it apart (Nissan dealer part only)

 

Ways to tell if your looking at the late ZX tranny out of the car.

bolt which holds speedo drive housing in tranny is on a pad which sticks down off to the tail shaft housing. Earlier trannys had it going into case above drive.

2 10 mm threaded holes in lower section of bellhousing for engine braces.

Reverse lock out mechanism- small diamond shaped plate on drivers side of tailshaft housing just above and forward of tranny mount flange. Earlier trannys didn't have this at all.

ears for shift lever are longer- even though pivot hole is same height. You can redrill this hole higher and lengthen shift lever below pivot to make a "short shifter". The last production trannys had extremly long shift lever ears.

 

To identify a 280ZX that should have the late tranny the car will be produced after about 5-80 (vin plate in driver door jamb) or on model identification plate (in engine compartment) you can find RC 3.9 embossed on bottom line of information. This is the rear gear ratio and the rear end will bolt right in your car as well as the tranny which is an excellent quick preformance mod for your car as well. The car will also have an F54 engine block in it (embossed in lower driver's side of the block).

 

If you are planning on keeping the original 3.54 rear gear in your car the earlier 5 speed will work fine as it has identical 1-4 ratios as the original 4 speed. It mearly adds a .864 5th gear.

the later tranny has taller 1st and 2nd gears and its overdrive is taller at .745 which will help lower engine rpm at cruise speeds.

The late tranny running through the original 3.54 gears will launch a little softer and have a lower rpm at cruise speeds which might help your hiway fuel mileage.

The early 5 spd running through the late 3.9 rear end will have a first gear that is so short that you will tend to use second gear to start off (when your not "on it"). Full throttle launch in first gear is less than 2 seconds before you have to shift to second (motor in proper tune).

My 78 is currently set up this way and it can be fun (extreme hole shots) but I would rather have the later tranny.

The drive shaft you have will work fine with any of the 5 speeds -exception being the B-G Turbo 5 spd.

[innerware]

All very awesome information. I have a friend who has done a bunch of motor swaps, rebuilds etc. He has never worked on early Z's and has never swapped out different year stuff. He has been very skeptical about what I have been telling him could be swapped on the car. All of this information should be a sticky. This has been such great stuff.

 

Thanks everyone very much. Now I know that I can borrow my 78 starter to try and start the 77 if that is the issue. I also now know what year tranny to look for and what to do to make it work well.

 

Hope everyone has a great long weekend,

 

Kyle

[Guest bastaad525]

I'm using a 280zx 5 speed in a 240z, it bolted right up, and I didn't have to cut the shifter hole at all.

[datsunlover]

Just a FYI, the 240sx clutch, pilot bushing, and clutch bearing are all identical to the Z's from what I can tell. Sometimes the same part is cheaper, depending on what car you say it's for. I would think the 240xs starter would even work, although I can not say for sure.

[b__sosick]

*sigh*

 

the beauty of nissans/datsuns interchangeableness.

 

I know thats not a word, but you get the message.

:]

[JMortensen]

I'm using a 280zx 5 speed in a 240z, it bolted right up, and I didn't have to cut the shifter hole at all.

The early "monkey motion" 4 speeds in 70 and 71 cars were the only ones that were longer. Everything after mid 71 is the same length.