JMortensen Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I've been searching and searching and searching and it paid off. I read in one of the old archived threads that Tabco makes the quarter replacements that VB sells, and bought them direct and saved some cash. Thank you Hybridz. I've got my front lower quarter replacement panels, and now I have some questions on how exactly it is that I go about putting these on. Let me start with the background on these pics. When I first got my car it had some rust in this area. I took it to a GEEZER to get it fixed. I'm not kidding, the guy who fixed the rust the first time was AT LEAST 80 years old. I asked him to give me back the rusty metal he cut out when he was done. The job was done in 2 days, and sure enough he gave me some chunks of rusty metal and I thought all was well. Later on I had the car painted and I got seriously ripped off on the paint job, and a couple years after that I started noticing some bubbling under the paint. CRAP. Well, I put it off for a few more years, and now I've finally decided to fix this issue once and for all. So I grab the grinder and put a wire wheel on it and start to try to find some metal. The bondo was about 1/4" thick. Not good. When I finally got down to the metal, it looked as if the patch panel that the GEEZ put in for me was actually brazed in, not welded in. The filler metal is yellow. He also only replaced about the last 2 inches before the wheel well, and apparently missed some rust that was forward of that area, which is now swiss cheese as you can see from the pictures. So I'm wondering how to do this repair. I've done absolutely NOTHING with auto body stuff before. I have been stitch welding my chassis, so I'm actually getting pretty good at welding the really thin sheet metal. But about the rest of this repair I'm pretty unsure of myself. I'm thinking the easiest thing to do would be to use the WHOLE patch panel. I think I can drill through the spot welds underneath, and the spot welds in the door jamb area. On the area where the quarter overlaps the rocker, how do I get this off? More spot welds? I think I saw a couple in there, but that is a seam, and I would think that it would be welded all the way down, right? What about the back end? My current thought is to cut away all of the G man's brazing which will leave me with a ~1 inch gap from the quarter to the fenderwell. I could just use a small flat section of sheet metal to then fill that in. Is that the right thing to do? Should I weld in that front seam and grind it down, basically removing it entirely? That seems like the right thing to do, as any crack there would just be a spot for more rust to show up. I had planned on using PickleX 20 and Zero Rust on any rust in the rocker forward of the rear quarter patch (can already see that there is some there. I had seen this website: http://www.autobodystore.com/door_rust.htm and was thinking I could use their little bridge piece idea where the top of the patch panel and the rest of the quarter meet. Anyone recommend any books or videos before I tackle this job? Any other suggestions? Thanks all. Jon EDIT--This is now a dedicated track day and autox car, not a show car and won't be driven on the street more than a couple days per year if that. If there is an easier but not as clean method, that's the one I'd like to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeatrpi Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Doglegs? I'm currently repairing those on my zx right now. Basically I cut all the rust away, made a cardboard template, then made my own patch out of sheet metal. I used an offset tool (similar to forming a backing strip like in your link) and punch to align and weld the panels together. I've been using ospho to protect the metal, and rustoleum on all concealed (backsides, etc) of the patches. Here are pictures- I finished welding on the outers earlier today. I hope to have them finished by the end of the long weekend. I'll put up new pictures then. http://z.modeltrainguide.com/gallery/album17?page=1 If you wander around my site you'll find other welding pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Heres what I did on mine. http://www.geocities.com/projectzt/dogleg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Jon ... hopefully Ernie will join with a few pointers..............cut it all out and stitch it back in.. Try to get the car as high as you can.where you will be in a comfortable position to weld and compliment your manual dexterity...... because vertical welding is not that easy... I am a great flat welder and that is far as it goes......Expose as much bare metal around your welding as possible because primer, paint caulk and bondo burn black nasty smoke. .....I made a flange tool out of a pair of vice grips using a similatr tool thet was in the Eastwood catalog. You can flange about a 3/8 inch path around the entire perimeter of the cutout area and then set the patch panel in the recessed flange. secure the patch with screws and then alternate stitch. You can also use a partially fastened screw for a grounding clamp point for the welding work. Disconnect your battery because I heard that the mig welder can do major damage to the ignition system....Do not weld in any spot long..In the last two days I have been welding on my GTO project in areas which will never be seen. I patched over the rear side markers and then madly welded the entire patch in one sweep..The patch and fender contracted and sunk in about a half inch due to excess heat (Glad that spot will be covered up but no dust will get thru.)...... I also removed the gas tank... I am also welding outside and every little breeze blows away the shielding argon/CO2 mix leaving a pimply weld. Also a good ground is important. My Craftsman Mig welder with only 2 heat settings welds better on high range if I can get the ground at a distance from the welding work...... a high quality welder also is a must for good welding and the Crapsman is not that kind requiring a fair amount of grinding every once in awhile to smooth out the bead back to bedrock...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Jon, I have done 4 of these repairs. It is fairly easy. I am assuming that you have a new dogleg panel in hand? Drill out the spot weld along the bottom and seams by the door jam and rocker seam. (use the new parts overlaid on the car to mark out where to cut the old piece out at the top -horizontal cut in the 1/4 panel)....so spot welds are drilled out along the bottom (pinch seam), along the rocker panel seam, along the wheel well pinch seam, and cut (I used a cutting disk) along the horizontal line from the wheel well to the door jam (this is the line that is drwn with a sharpie using the new part overlaid)....cut below the sharpie line, not above---it is easier to trim a bit more off when fitting the new part, than if you have cut too much off. Now us the old piece that has now been cut off the car to transfer the spot weld hole locations to the new part. Drill holes in the new part in these locations. Fit the new part to the car (trim the cut line if necessary to create a nice snug butt fit). Spot weld at the drilled holes, and stitch weld along the horizontal cut. Use some kitty hair filler at the horizontal weld (grind the welds smooth), sand down, then skim with plastic filler, prime and paint. You can get both sides done in one afternoon..... Kinda hard to explain by typing....let me know if this makes sense..... Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 2, 2005 Author Share Posted July 2, 2005 Well thanks all for the advice. Those two sites with all the pics really help. Perfect! Tim, I've got both panels in hand and I'm looking at this thinking you're right it really shouldn't be that hard. Don't think I'll get both sides done in a day though. I work like a snail, especially when I've never done a job before. I guess the thing that freaks me out is removing the original piece from this part of the car. I can see where the spot welds are, and I can see where the the panels overlap, and I guess that once I drill out the spot welds that the panel will come off, but for some reason I see myself prying these things off and bending the crap outta everything. I guess I need a spot weld drill bit so that I can drill out the spot welds without going all the way through... Larry, you can kinda see my Miller in the background with the gas tank. Vertical welding hasn't posed too much of a problem so far, and that welder makes all the difference. Compared to the previous welders I had tried this thing is great. It REALLY makes me look like I know what I'm doing (and I REALLY don't). Upside down welding has still turned out... less than desirable... but there shouldn't be any upside down stuff here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Man I WISH my Z was that rust free!! Just my experiance, I find the flux core wire (no gas) welders do a really good job for this sort of thing. I pretty much put my whole Z back together with my 110V Lincoln. It has the capability to use gas, if I buy the kit, but I probly won't bother. Besides the Z, I've done so many 'odd jobs' now that the thing has paid for itself. Skidoo suspensions/frames, body work, old iron tables/chairs, ect. It's great.. I just plug in in a back yard or driveway, and it goes. If I have any serious welding to do, I use the 220V mig that my boss has. (.045" wire, lots of current, the thing just goes like crazy! ) Don't worry man, upside down welding is always a PITA.. God I hate welding over my head.. I have the scarrs to prove it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Lest this thread get hijacked, and become yet another welder thread.... I built my entire Z with a flux core 220V Harbor freight welder. It worked fine, and always would proclaim that the gas shielding was a nicety that was unnecessary....however, now that I have a Miller with shielding gas I would never go back to flux core....it is night and day difference. I will only use my HF welder for very thick material where cosmetics are not much of an issue... my 2c worth..... Sorry for the tangent, Jon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 18, 2005 Author Share Posted July 18, 2005 Here are new pics of the rust repair. Today was the first chance I had to open it up. Looks a little worse inside than it did outside. Lots of rust between the panels in there, which kind of makes me think I'll NEVER get to it all. Also the fender lip where there are two sheets folded over and spot welded is really rusty although it hasn't started bubbling anywhere yet. I don't think I can get any rust treatment stuff into that area. I think the only way to fix is to flare the car and cut the lip off entirely. I guess the good news is that the rockers are really clean aside from some spiderwebs. Any suggestions of how to deal with the rust between the panels? Should I just keep cutting until I expose all of it? I really don't want to cut the stuff in the door jamb area, and I think that I can spray that seam in front from both sides and take care of it, but some of the other areas in there are not that easy to get to. What about rebuilding the end of the rocker panel? Does it need that curved end like it had originally for strength, or can I just maybe weld a plate on the end and call it good? Any other tips or hints appreciated. Here's some pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 Well I cut some more yesterday, then did the other side today. This (I think) is the end of my cutting. After this its going to be treating the metal and then putting it back together. Here's the pics: Still not sure how to rebuild the back end of the rocker boxes. Any tips appreciated. Might just wing it since I'm doing the roll bar back there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 Also wanted to ask if the black dum dum stuff was factory installed or if my geezer body dude did that. Doesn't seem like the best idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeatrpi Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 What are you going to treat the rust with? Rust Bullet or por-15? I have a zx, and our panels are very different there, so I can't tell you if you should cut more or stop where you are. Either way, I'd say you're approaching half-way done with the repair. Treat it, weld on the patch, body work, beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 Well I just went out and treated it with the Picklex20 http://www.picklex20.comwhich showed up today, and I need to get me some Zero Rust for the final coat. Zero Rust seems to be pretty highly thought of around here. The more I think about it the more I think I'm just going to leave the rocker open on the end. Anyone want to tell me that's a dumb idea before I weld it up??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeatrpi Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Open on the end, like into the wheel well? I'm going to fiberglass mine. I figure its non load bearing and barely visible. I just don't want pebbles and mud collecting in there. Oh yea, I finished the body work on mine. I'm not sure if you ever went back to my link. I started on the floor now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 No, I meant the rocker where it extends underneath the dogleg. It's like a frame rail in the early Z. The original has this compound curve in it. I'm thinking rather than try to duplicate that, I'll just leave it open and weld the top part that's still in there. Definitely have to close the back end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Looks pretty good, Jon.........saturate it with "pickle" and seal it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerware Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 you are all an inspiration. I started cutting out this very area today on my project car. I wouldn't had had the guts if not for all the brave before me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentZ Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Slight Hijack but what is the best way to cut rust out? Sawzall or cut off wheel? Just wondering looknig to buy some new tools. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Be sure to get a griding wheel on your grinder ( wire brusch) cut out all 'deep' rust, after wiring it to steal.. than use a rust nutralizer... after this apply zincspray and on the place inside the fender and where you dont see them, use a two componet epoxy based coating ( they are sold with rust stopper aswel). Or paint it with Red iron menie ( what is the english word for that) well teh stuff they paint on construction sites metal work. Best to use zinc based two componet epoxy primer on the car finally before paint, and use wax after to fill the doglegs and hollow spaces Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerware Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 I used a cut off wheel on my angle grinder. Man was that easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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