Xander Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 This weekend I finally finished my new setup and it works great. I have a regular compression f54 block, P90A (non hydraulic) head, Z31 Turbo with a modified downpipe, Saab 9000 Intercooler, 60 mm TB, 370cc injectors with dropping resistors. As a rpm pickup I installed 3 magnets in my flywheel with a hall sensor mounted on the sandwitch plate between the block and trans. The distributor is fixed in place and is now no more than just a distributor. As a start I loaded the moby injection and ignition maps (thanks Moby). After adjusting the req fuel setting it ran just fine. Then I installed my TechEdge WB02 sensor. I am using the WBlin and feeding it into the O2 input of the megasquirt unit. As a bonus I connected the Narrow band simulated output of the Techedge to a dash mounted afr meter. I set the Air/Fuel ratio target map to run about 13:1 on boost and 15:1 when cruising. Then I went for a drive. AMAZING!!!! This thing just goes and goes. The Wideband takes care of the fuel map for now and everything looks great. I am now using the datalogs to adjust the fuel table. If you look to the right of the white line you can see a full throttle acceleration. Boost is set to 7 psi. When the boost comes on you can see a spike of the afr to 10:1. Then the closed loop target afr system start to adjust the mixture to 13:1. It adjust the mixture to about 90%. This tells me I have to adjust my fuel maps about 10% leaner in that area. Great! And all this for a DIY system. I can highly recomend this combination of MS&S-E and the Techedge wideband controller. For a total price of less than $500 you can have a fully programmable fuel and ignition system with closed loop wideband monitoring. That is cheaper that the basic SDS system and you get more stuff to fidle with. I had a bit of a race with a 300zxTT (z32) and after I jumped about two car lengths on him at the start he still couldn't catch up to me. This was at only 7 psi. Granted the owner of the z32 couldn't drive to save his live but still I fully expected for him to catchup to me and it just didn't happen. I'll try to get it dynoed in the near future. Zya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I have to say that what Xander dedscribes is EXACTLY the scenario that Electromotive TEC2 used---you would set your map, run on the WBO2 that was incorporated in the system, and then datalog the correction offsets to refine your fuel plotting. As an aside, the TEC2 had 8X8 spark and Fuel maps. It also cost $1700, BARE, in 1999 dollars! I would agree, for the money outlay, the Megasquirt especially now with the 12X12 Maps!) is HARD TO BEAT! I have recently taken apart the Period-Correct ECU from an original 81ZXT. I think the hype over "automotive grade componentry" in the ECU is really overblown. The stuff in the FACTORY ECU is all "consumer grade" stuff, and they lasted well over 20 years. I am more convinced now that the Megasquirt is THE alternative to replacing an ailing EFI system in any of the early cars. It is, INDEED, a clear STEP UP even if you onlyrun the fuel program on an 8X8 map! Congrats, Xander, nice datalog. Keep us posted. Tell Frank to get his working now! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 cool, I was hoping more people would try this out. I have the tech edge WB unit, now I just need to get it hooked up to the megasquirt. good job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 did you guys buy the TechEdge unit pre-built or did you build it all yourself?! I am interested in a WB02 setup, but I am debating between Innovative Motorsports LM1 setup.. OR.. the TechEdge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I built the tech edge unit and it IS harder to build than megasquirt is. There are more components and the instructions were harder to follow. I also had a short on the pcb itself which made troubleshooting hard. Hopefully they don't have those issues anymore with their pcbs. If I had it to do over again I would just buy the LM1 unit. IMO, the tech edge unit just didn't save enough money to make it a worthwhile DIY project like megasuirt does. But if you want experience soldering it is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 Tell Frank to get his working now! LOL LOL. That's what I keep telling him! This spring he was telling everyone that he would get his car finished in the summer. Yesterday he was telling everyone it will be finished in the winter. But he is a working guy now. so he doesn't have that much time to fool around with cars anymore. did you guys buy the TechEdge unit pre-built or did you build it all yourself?! If you build a megasquirt and got it working than the techedge is only a small step up in difficulty. I build it myself also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 Things that can go wrong with tuning your ms&s-extra: compare this picture with the one in the first post. the A/F ratio in the first is off. This one is better. The logviewer was set to nonlinear air fuel output. But I am using the linear output. Another lesson learned. another thing that went wrong: When seting up your timing. You set the timing (for example) to 20 degrees advance. If the mark on the front pulley is off then adjust the trigger angle. After this was set I forgot to set it back to using the tables. I was driving around with a fixed 20 degrees of advance! I Thought the car didn't feel quite as it should be but I didn't find out what it was for about a 100 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I may be wrong here (have been before and will be again), but: It seems to me that if you were at 10:1 at full throttle, that you need to adjust your settings 10% LEANER, rather than richer. I started reading all the MS threads because I'm about to get a V3 MS board and MSns_Extra setup and harness from Rodney, and I'll admit that it is as bit overwhelming to start with. If I am wrong, please show me the error of my ways so that I can adjust my thinking and go back and reread the pertinant basics again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightzxt Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 could you please explain the red rpm line? It doesn't change that much over the tuning run, and it doesn't seem to get above 5000. Is that just your run? The TPS and MAP don't seem to match much of the rpm rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Then I installed my TechEdge WB02 sensor. I am using the sVout and feeding it into the O2 input of the megasquirt unit. As a bonus I connected the Narrow band simulated output of the Techedge to a dash mounted afr meter. I'm curious why you're using the sVout output on the Techedge and not the WBVout? Or is this an older version of the Techedge? I also had a short on the pcb itself which made troubleshooting hard. Hopefully they don't have those issues anymore with their pcbs. If I had it to do over again I would just buy the LM1 unit. IMO, the tech edge unit just didn't save enough money to make it a worthwhile DIY project like megasuirt does. Moby... I've built 3 Techedge 2AO DIY kits and didn't have problems with any of them, so if they did have issues with them, they would seem to have been resolved. I've been very happy with mine, and I figure I saved at least close to $200 over the LM1. That was worth it for me. But I've heard nothing but good things about the LM1. Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted July 18, 2005 Author Share Posted July 18, 2005 It seems to me that if you were at 10:1 at full throttle, that you need to adjust your settings 10% LEANER, rather than richer. your right, Thats what I did. I wrote it down the wrong way around. Good observation! I'll edit it soon. midnightzxt: The run was from about 3000 to 5000 rpm. I didn't take it higher than that because the engine had only about 200 miles on it and I am still taking it easy. RPM and MAP should not match the TPS. TPS is at 100% = full throttle. Then rpm is rising at a steady state and boost (MAP) Comes on a tad later then the TPS rise (boost lag). As you can see at 3000 rpm boost lag is minimal. Nigel: Raw (uncalibrated) IpDrive voltage WBVout - Pin 7 This is the raw voltage output of the WB02 processor's Ip drive circuitry. The wideband software, and the pump cell's internal Nernst voltage itself, determine this voltage. This signal is not that useful for connecting to external circuitry and the voltage level itself cannot be calibrated (as can the other output voltages). quoted from the WBO2 site. thats why I don't use the WBVout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Sorry, I meant the WBlin output. I thought the SVout was just for the display, since it's not a true 0 to 5 V Wideband signal (SVout is only 1 to 3 volts). Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted July 18, 2005 Author Share Posted July 18, 2005 I am using Wblin. In my first post I corrected it but you must have read it before I edited it. Megasquirt can be setup to use WBlin or SVout SVout has a range of 1.3 to 3.1 volts. WBlin has a range of 0 to 5 volt. WBlin theoretically has a better resolution. I doubt if it will be noticable. I read somewhere that you can adjust the lookup table for the NBsim output. I am thinking of rewriting it to be a linear "curve" between 0 and 1 Volt and afr of 14.7:1 at 0.5 Volt. That way my narrowband meter can be used to read the afr directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus1500 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 ok, im confused by the wb02.com site... its in au dollars... is that where you got it from? is it sent from australlia? Did you build the 2A0? and which o2 sensor did you use? and my last question, the pre assembled kits come with "misc" stuff... what are these miscellaneous things? If i buy the kit, sensor, connector, and display, am i going to be missing something??? thanks! -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Finally got around to purchasing my Zeitronix wideband setup, once I get it up and running I'll let you know how it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I just got in my LC-1. Waiting to get my MS V3 built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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