PapaSmurf Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 OK so it's been 3 weeks without a vehicle and they called me today and told me that they'd give me 1260 for my Z... It's worth way more than that I need you guys to help me find examples of Z's in the same shape as mine that have sold for more or some official price guide that lists it.. I dont know I need help I found a Z in my area for sale for 2500 but its rusting! 1260 wont get me another Z I need your guys's help please! Jesus they shouldnt be trying to low ball me they should give me the fair ammount and then they should kick in a little extra just because my car got smashed in and I've been without a vehicle for 3 weeks gaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 http://www.cardomain.com/ride/845722 theres my car I have drilled and slotted rotors a push button ignition completely new interior new U joints, new tires, it's perfect except for the fact it's been smashed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Dude, they are lowballing you. Tell them you expect REPLACEMENT VALUE based on the examples in similar condition. You're a victim here and should not LOSE the value of your car because someone else was negligent in their actions. Don't accept any payment you're not happy with. Make sure you get examples from the want ads, Craigslist, Ebay, Zcar.com, Autotrader.com, Edmunds, and the like... Fight this and you'll be rewarded. Give in and take a small payment and you lose. My 74 260Z was totalled and I got $7800 AND was allowed to keep it. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 oh I plan to fight it it just seems like a loosing battle getting a hold of them at all takes an hour and then they laugh at me when I tell them what I think it was worth which is between 4 and 5 grand. I cant afford a lawyer this is ridiculous my car got destroyed, my baby, I put so many hours into it so much work and they smash it and try to bully me into accepting less than half of what its' worth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 OK, I was (I think) your age when I had mine totalled. Don't let them think you aren't able to afford a lawyer. You have to be confident, and you have to make them understand that if they do not come up with a better number, then you'll be forced to take it to court. Now, You would not sue the insurance company if it did go to court. You'd sue your neighbore in civil court. They would be requried to go after their insurance company for any compensation due them from your suit. Bottom line is make everyone aware that you know (with proof in hand) that your car is worth XXX value in replacement cost, based on the examples available on the market. This car is a classic and does not fit the traditional NADA mold. Fight it. They will make every excuse and not return calls. They want to beat you down until you will ask for that check... That's exactly what they are hoping for. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 what they do should be illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 autotrader and edmunds only go to 1981 any car made before that is not listed thats the problem with these things, theres no kelly blue book price theres nothing to go on except what they're selling for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaime240z Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 On autotrader you will need to go to the classic car trader for this. Don't give up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mugen405 Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 First off, there is really no way to go by NADA, Kelly, or Edmunds for replacement value. The only way to ascertain true market value of the car is to find others of similar condition and see what they are selling for. Places to check would be Classic Car Trader, Ebay (Completed Auctions), and the local classifieds. The insurance company IS trying to screw you, make no mistake about that. The only way to beat them is to be firm with them. They are required to cover the damages caused by their insured. In some states, they aren't even allowed to total your car out - unless it's a complete loss - without your consent. They are required to repair the damages, if it's possible to do so safely. Your damages appear to fit that category. Therefore, another option is to get some estimates from body shops. Go to several, and get a quote. Take the highest 2 or 3 you get, and present them to the adjuster, along with the printouts of the other Z's you've found for sale or sold. If they laugh at you, tell them your next option is a lawyer - and MEAN it. Good luck.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Some good sound advice is given above in the earlier posts. Insurance adjusters get paid a portion of the difference in the claim. Whaaaaa? That's right folks, If you have time look at an adjustment, they have the stated value of the car less depreciation and deductions. If they can get you to settle for what they offer an adjuster in some companies would get 40% of the difference! So, just say no, keep saying no, keep furnishing them with examples of the year car you had that go for alot of money and be patient. Back in '93 my '84 Monte SS was stolen on Christmas eve, trunk full of presents, and recovered in Mexico a month later, totally stripped of interior, stereo, doors, glass, fenders, wheels, tires, but still had the engine and trans. It had to be towed back to the US on a dolly. Had new 350 engine trans, $1200 stereo, new interior, new tires, shocks, paint, windshield, yada yada. They offered me $1500 and I buy the car back for $500, so it was $1000 plus the car. By the time I got done with them 6 months later, I left there with $8750 plus the car. But what helped is that I bought another car like mine for $6K, and it only had 16,000 original miles! Here's what I said; I suppose that if you guys told a judge that his brand new lincoln he paid 30K for, that was stolen was now worth half of what he paid for it, that he wouldn't believe you and rule against you." I bet I had to say that a dozen times about everything they were depreciating, like my stereo that I had just gotten installed the week before was now only worth $500 cause it was used. Really, a used Alpine system with amp, 5 disc cd changer, and speakers installed for $1200 a week ago is now worth $500. I got a letter from the stereo dealer saying he'd give me $1000 for it back today. Those are the kinds of things that will help your cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 theres a nice ish 77 280z for sale in portland about 20 minutes from me I've gotten to know the seller and it looks like a nice car I"m gonna go down there this weekend and check it out, he wants 2500 for it, it's not in the BEST shape but it's perfectly fixable it's about where mine was before it was destroyed minus a few upgrades. I left a message on my insurrance adjusters voice mail (because he is only in the office for ONE hour each day from 8-9am) I told him he could buy me that car and let me keep mine and we'd call it even, I laughed at him when he told me 1200 I told him theres no way in hell I'd take that. I'm calling some body shops right now to get some estimates on repairs to mine but honestly it got hit hard and even if they can fix it it will never be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Battle Pope Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 yeah. I'd say the price of the one you found plus the price of the upgrades you've done to yours. The insurance company will try to bully you, but keep a strong back and eventually they will cough it up. They can only knowingly be in the wrong for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 If you are expecting to be made whole, you are mistaken. Expect to get screwed, you'll end up smiling if you have any patience. You'll come out good if you break even or just end up losing your time and a few mods. But they'd like it more it you'd just take the 1200 and "Be Happy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra510 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Instead of turning this into a hatefest against insurance how about we educate ourselves a little? First link is to the NADA classic car online guide. This gives somewhat of an idea of your vehicles worth. I would expect low retail fits the condition of your vehicle. http://www.nadaguides.com/uv/viewresults.aspx?LI=1-12-1-2031-0-0-0&Lnk=1&wSec=12&wPr=1&wPg=2032 This second link is the state of Washington's fact sheet for Total losses. http://www.insurance.wa.gov/factsheets/factsheet_detail.asp?FctShtRcdNum=47 What this says is there are basically 3 ways for them to settle this 1. They find 2 or more comparable vehicles in your local market and pay you this amount. You should be able to replace your vehicle for the amount of the settlement. If this means they found 2 vehicles and they averaged out to 1250 then that's what is owed. Go buy one. They owe for you to replace the vehicle not for a profit to be made. 2. They can get dealer quotes. Just like it sounds they call up a registered dealer, 2 usually, and get quotes. That is used as the settlement amount. 3. In Washington it is legal to use NADA as a source --see this quote "Any source for determining statistically valid actual cash values within your vehicle’s principally garaged area that meets the following criteria: Primary consideration must be given to the values of vehicles in the zip code where your vehicle was principally garaged. The data base must produce values for at least eighty-five percent of all makes and models for a minimum of fifteen years taking into account the values of all major options for such vehicles. Actual cash values must be based on current data available from the principally garaged area. If comparable vehicles cannot be found within the principally garaged area, the search area may be expanded until comparable vehicles are identified to assure statistical validity. The source must rely upon the actual cash value of comparable vehicles that are currently available or were available in the market place within ninety days from the date of loss. The source must provide a list of the comparable vehicles used to determine the actual cash value. If more than thirty comparable vehicles are used, only thirty must be listed. " What all that means is NADA is ok to use. The bottom line is educate yourself and do what you are doing and come up with examples of your own if possible. You didn't say what kind of documentation they gave you to support the value. Find that out and work from there. Punch zero on the voicemail and you should get someone else, ask for a supervisor if you're having issues contacting the adjuster. Insurance adjusters making a portion of the settlement not paid?. They should only be so lucky. I'll admit I'm not familiar with every company, but no major insurance company operates this way. Let's try to keep this factual. Bottom line is that there is a very clear outline to how the process works and how to determine the value of the vehicle. Obviously we all want as much as possible for our vehicle, and if you can't replace the vehicle for the offer then it is not enough, but if you can, then do it and move on. As far as getting the value + the value of all you've done, this is not going to happen. Any documentation you have will help but do not expect dollar for dollar back on modifications. This is true of virtually any car and with the case of many, even performance cars, aftermarket mods can actually decrease the value of the car. If I put a 4k set of wheels and tires on beater car it doesn't make the car worth 4k. I'm not trying to be harsh here, we all want the best for you and hope you get the most from the settlement, but a little information can go a long way instead of just piling on. Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Great advice from Anthony and other members..... Document your claim...fllood them with paperwork and estimate, pictures following along the lines Mike spelled out and Anthony elaborated on. Your adversaries are very limited on time and are not even equipped to adequetely respond in kind to your paperwork. They have you talking to an answer machine...put it all in print...... the old fashioned way. After any conversation with them ..follow-up with a letter to specifically dispute thier views with facts and reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 thank you anthony I love you haha I'm sending that nada form right to the adjuster. they got that value by calling a some random used car dealership somewhere in oregon so yeah it's rather lame. The problem with insurrance companies is they have incentive to rip you off, they make more money that way so no one could trust them. especially considering that they dont ever let you talk to real people just those damned voicemail boxes, it's like psychological warfare ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra510 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Glad to help. I know it seems like they are trying to give you the lowest amount, and maybe this is the case, but it is difficult for adjusters to find values for older cars because there aren't that many out there. Combine that with modifications and it really can be really difficult. Settling a 2000 Honda Accord is alot easier as there are plenty of examples out there. It sounds like they used the dealer quote method, which is their right to do, however you should also be able to find a car for that amount, which it sounds like you can't do at this point. Your documentation should help your cause. Believe it or not an adjuster's job is to settle claims, not piss people off. The more information you can present in a calm and rational manner the better. What's the saying? You can catch more flies with honey than vineger. You are giving the adjuster documentation he/she can use to go to their supervisor and get more $ for the settlement. The sooner they can settle your claim the sooner it is off the desk. Sounds like this adjuster is too busy for his workload which is pretty common. I've said enough. Good luck, Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Chris Cloud, Former member of this board, and former business partner of mine, Used to work for Nationwide Insurance and knew the racket inside out. It is to their best interest to give you the least amount of compensation you will accept. The bottom line is that they are prepared to pay you in full what your car is worth if you can prove without doubt that your car is worth $4000 (Using this figure only as an example). However, As Anthony points out, they aren't required to hand you some amount above that figure. The idea is replacement value. When I went before the Statefarm boys, I had a folder with receipts in it that was more than an inch thick, plus a Video tape of my promotional work using the car in my business at the time. Documentation is the key. If you have receipts for anything, show them. In the future, keep all receipts so you can prove the modifications and their cost to duplicate. Nothing beats those when it comes to arguing worth. The other guys made excellent comments... So it sounds like you've got some followup work to do on your end. Good luck! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Here in Canada there are 2 types of insurance policies for cars, 19 and 19A. Most people and many insurance companies aren't even aware of the the 19A option. With the 19A policy, your vehicle is covered for a predetermined replacement value. So, for example, my Z was appraised for X thousands of dollars. If my Z were written off or stolen, I would be covered for that full amount and not some arbitrary number the agent pulled out of thin air. Is there no similar option in the States? Like I said, many insurance companies here have never even heard of this, so you may have to phone around. Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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