Z Model Advice for V8 Project

[American]

New guy here. Started doing some reading on the boards but thought I'd ask something first.

 

Looking to build a SBC hybrid, was focused on a 70-73 Trans Am or Camaro but prices are out of this world for junk.

 

I've always liked the 240 but which is the best model to build a hybrid out of? I'm going with aftermarket brakes and suspension too but am more curious about engine bay space, frame strength and overall ease of conversion.

 

I intend to go with some aluminum heads on a 350-406 SBC and possibly a 700R4.

 

I have moved my running list of parts from the post below:

 

Exterior:

280Zone Hood: 435.00

MSA Flares (F): 116.95

MSA Flares ®: 116.95

MSA CF BRE Spoiler: 250.00

MSA CF Front Bumper: 259.95

MSA CF Rear Bumper: 259.95

or

MSA Fiberglass Air Dam w/bumper (F): 160.00

MSA Fiberglass Rear Bumper: 149.95

Paint:

 

Interior:

AutoMeter Gauges: 700.00

Seats: 4-500 each with mounts

Pedals: 40-100.00

Steering Wheel:

Harnesses: 300.00

Roll Bar w/pad: 360.00

Carpet:

Panels/plastic/dash:

Sound System (gotta have tunes):

 

Suspension:

AZ Coil Over Kit with Camber Plates: 1200.00

Shocks/struts: 400-500.00

or some sort of spring/shock combo for around 600-800.00

Sway Bars: 250-350.00

Diff Swap R200:

AZ Mustache Bar: 249.00

AZ Dif Mount: 49.00

Strut Bars: 220.00

Wheels/Tires: 2-3000.00

 

Brakes:

AZ 5 Lug Brake Kit: 2200.00

 

Engine/Transmission:

JTR Kit: 300.00

JTR Radiator: 250.00 (including mounts etc)

C&R Radiator: 287.00 (Peter at C&R actually pulled up Paraska's order for me with specs, 2 row, double pass, 26x19" aluminum).

Radiator/fans: 400-800.00

JTR Headers: 300.00

Engine SBC (including FI/Ignition/etc:

Transmision 700R4:

Exhaust:

A/C (if I go that way):

 

And million other things, I'm just listing the highlights above that come to my head. So yeah... 25-35k is probably a much better estimate. If anything, maybe this will help out a few other newbies in the process.

 

I'll keep updating the list and hyperlinks as I go. I'll add options to each category as I find them. Feel free to make any suggestions.

 

 

Thanks,

[dr_hunt]

Well, this forum is loaded big time with all kinds of info, try the search function first. It is the general advice that the 240 through 280 z's are the best choice with the frame strength increasing as the production years increase so the 240 is the lightest, but the weakest. The zx models and later have limited engine space. Considerable time and experience has dictated structural mods that are well documented here on this forum.

 

Trans selection is good for the 700R4, aluminum heads is a plus. Decide what you want the car to do and build towards that, search alot, read alot, there is a JTR (jags that run) book available from JTR that has ton's of info. I've never seen or read one personally, I've gotten all the info I've needed right here using the search function or asking questions. I read alot long before I posted any questions.

 

Welcome

[Mike kZ]

Welcome! Here is the link to the JTR manual, Buy one! http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Datsun_Z_V-8.html

[American]

Thanks for the info guys. I have been reading this forum for a few days and been doing some searching but I really never read anything that pointed me towards a specific model (240-260-280). Once I decide on the model then I can start planning from there.

 

I was in the engine biz for 10+ years and have had my share of hot rods and hybrids of various makes so I'm not totally green. But when it comes to Z hybrids I am a lost ball in the weeds.

 

My goal like most others is light weight, balance, good suspension and brakes and of course mucho HP.

 

I'll appreciate any pointers and will keep reading and reading before I start this project.

[deMideon]

One driving factor for model decisions can be emissions. Does it make a difference if it is a 73 or a 78? If not then my choice is the 280. As dr_hunt said, it is significantly beefed up as far as structural strength. Very important when you go way up in Hp. I had both a 73 240 and now a 280. Everything is stronger in how the 280 is built, but of course.... it weighs more as well!

[dr_hunt]

You could check out the timeslip database, see what the faster cars are running, who they are and check out their pic's and what not.

[wheelman]

One other real important factor is finding one that is as rust free as possible. I would consider all S30 models (240, 260 or 280) and concentrate on getting a rust free one.

If weight is the biggest issue then you really want an early 240 (70 - 71).

For me the weight is not the issue because it's always possible to make more HP and even with "only" ~300HP mine's a real monster.

The later ones (ZXs from 79 up) have smaller engine bays and inferior rear suspensions.

 

Wheelman

[pparaska]

I see it posted often that the 280Z chassis is stiffer than the 240Z, but I often wonder by how much. Does anyone have any torsional and bending stiffness numbers to show that this is as vast a difference as to make it worth worrying about?

 

The other thing is that many times if you are going to go past 300hp, or have rust in structural areas (almost always do unless it's a real rust free desert car), then structural mods like subframe connectors and roll cage may take a lighter 240Z past (stiffness and strength-wise) where a stock 280Z is (I believe this to be true, but no numbers), and in the "good enough" range.

 

So if a stiffened Z is the end result, I think a 240Z or early 260Z makes sense.

 

The other thing to consider is that the 73+ Zs had intermittent wipers, and the 280Z had A/C from the factory. If you don't care about that, a 240Z can be used. If you do care, then using a 280Z may be more to your liking.

 

If it is to be a drag car with a full cage and frame, I say use a 240Z to start with as the shell is just along for the ride.

 

Mike Knell's book (jtr) goes into the other aspects (ease of modifying the wiring, etc.).

[American]

Good stuff all.

 

This is going to be a 'pro touring' type car, not for drag racing per se. I've always been partial to the 240 but I'm not sure it will make that big of difference because as you say, the car is going to be so heavily modified and reinforced regardless.

 

I'm on the lookout for a good clean 240 roller.

 

On the other hand, I'd be pretty happy to trade my V8 Jeep for a hybrid Z already built too.

 

Went ahead an ordered the JTR manual tonight as well.

[240Z2NV]

One thing that I don't recall in your initial post: Do you have intentions of keeping the interior and other cosmetics relatively stock? If so, consider the big differences in the interior looks of 240 vs. 260/280Zs. I, personally, wouldn't consider it subtle. So, if that is an area of consideration, it should point you in the right direction. As Mr. Paraska pointed out, if you are doing a full-tilt V8 hybridization, you will (at least should) be doing some significant chassis reinforcement (subframe connectors, etc.) anyway, so the OE stiffness of the chassis is kind of irrelevant, no?

Another isssue is the emissions laws in your state. Is there a cutoff year of production that would exempt you from testing or referee hassles? That helped make it real easy for me to pick the '73 that I am building. Then again, I have several acquaintances locally that are also active on this site that have friends that 'sign their cars off', so, for them, it isn't a factor.

My .02 FWIW

[240ZR]

Most of all get the CAR YOU LIKE BEST! I personaly like the way the 240Z looks over the 260Z and 280Z I think they look like just pur sex, some like the hood working on the 280ZX Turbos, some even like the 2+2 (cries) but most all of its going to be a car tht you dump alot of money into befor you even get it running for the first time

[American]

This will be a long term project for sure, no weekend swapout by any means.

 

I intend to put a roll bar in, different seats (Mastercraft or Recaro, etc), harnesses, full Autometer instrumentation, tie in the frame rails, Wilwood brakes, coil overs, control arms, fender flares..etc. I'd like to have A/C working but that is secondary.

 

It will be blue with white stripe(s) and black interior.

 

I'm shooting for 450+hp, most likely go with 400+ cubes, Edelbrock heads some sort of FI and a 700R4.

 

I have been reading like crazy and await the JTR manual to arrive. I am pleasantly surprised that most parts are fairly reasonable. This car will end up costing me between 15-20k not counting my time but the end result will be a world class performer.

 

I love the AZ and Modern Motorsports parts and will have to make some decisions in regards to exact parts, but I have plenty of time for that.

 

I too like the 240's best and that's what I intend to go with.

 

Now, if I could just post a Wanted ad here so I can start the hunt for a clean 240....

[280zwitha383]

Good luck finding the 240. I have seen one in town here but never one for sale. There are however quite a few 280zx's running around. If I ever find one for sale I will be all over it.

[2126]

Take a trip to California....I see them (240's) for sale on a regular basis.

[240Z2NV]

http://www.craigslist.org under "Autos" Many locations throughout US (and foreign, as well). Since it began in the San Francisco Bay Area, that search locale has the heaviest usage. Many early Zs available. Also, depending on the condition you desire, I have a friend that essentially has a 'junkyard' full of Zs....many of which are perfect for a full-on hybridization. If you are willing to make the trek to CA, and are interested, email me directly:

handymanstan@comcast.net

[American]

Good luck finding the 240. I have seen one[/b'] in town here but never one for sale.

 

Being from Abilene I know what you mean.

 

But living here in Dallas it's a different story. It won't be so much a matter of finding one but rather finding the right one.

 

Here's a local 240.. hurt puppy:

 

http://dallas.craigslist.org/pts/92683365.html

[johnc]

This car will end up costing me between 15-20k

 

Very, very famous last words! Budget at least $35K based on your goal of a "pro-touring" car with "world class performance."

 

Clean, low rust 280Zs are thousands less then comparably clean and low rust 240Zs. 240Zs are really becoming collector cars and prices are climbing as a result. 280Zs haven't achieved that status and will always lag behind 240Zs in price.

[American]

If that's the case then I need to look real hard at one already built as they are even found in the classifieds here for 10-12k and while I don't want to build one just to sell it I don't like being in that bad of an equity position either when it comes to toys.

 

In my 37 years I have built and owned many a vehicle, 55-57 Chevys to race cars to 4x4's and motorcycles, having spent over 10 years in the engine biz will do that to you. I still have excellent contacts in the engine/auto parts business and do consulting work for the gentleman that owned the engine/gasket stores and things like engines, wheels/tires..etc will cost me much less than the average person.

 

(can I post a wanted ad yet?)

[American]

MOVED LIST TO FIRST POST.

 

Well, how about I start laying out a parts list here?

 

I'm going to use this as a running list and edit accordingly as I go.

[DavyZ]

American,

 

Also consider other parts places in addition to AZC:

 

http://modern-motorsports.com

http://zcarparts.com

http://victoriabritish.com

 

...and the others that serve up used Datsun parts...can't remember those.

 

I vouch for Ross at Modern-Motorsports LTD. He's a good guy with a lot of knowledge and carries some sick brake packages and billet hubs, etc.

 

Davy