Chewievette Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Is anyone here familiar with casting engine blocks? I have been developing my own engine for quite some time now and I need to know a bit more about casting a block. I either need to learn how to do it myself (preferred) or have someone do it for me. Either way I need to know how its done so that I can design the block. I know a lot of them are done using sand casting but how are sand molds made? Any help would be appreciated, Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I have been looking into sumthing very similar, but i was too limited only to finding out about the sand castings, i actually read sumwhere howto do it, i'll see if i can find the site. I was looking into designing my own engine, or designing a DOHC head-but funds have cut back quite a bit since i started this design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I've got a link at home for a company that does this type of thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 I know what you mean about those funds, they just seem to go right out the window dont they. I am acctually working on two engine designs, which makes things a little more interesting. The first one is a cross breed between the Northstar top end and the LS1/6 bottom end so I can get some displacement behind that quad cam. Recently I've been toying with the idea of doubling it into a V16, still trying to mentally fit that in the engine bay... The other is a Flat 12 designed from the ground up for air racing (my other passion) If it doesnt make it faster, lighter, or safer it doesnt have it! That one should be a screamer. Now I just have to find some of that funding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Engine block casting is some of the most complicate casting there is. You'll need to work with an engineer that's experienced in designing engine castings to be successful. It might end up being less expensive to get a chunk of AL and machine it into an engine block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 if you hang around some of the serious drag racers for a while you might find something. Alot of the guys that still race swamp rats have custom cast blocks. I once found a guy who had custom 427 ford cammer blocks cast that where extensivley modified. I'll look for the link and edit my post if I find anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 It might end up being less expensive to get a chunk of AL and machine it into an engine block. I was thinking about doing that but cutting the water jacket into it sounds very expensive! but hell, I'm not even listening to myself I'm not doing this as a cheap alternative! I just thought casting it would be easier. Doing it myself sounds risky and wasteful aka I havn't a clue how many I'm going to have to make before I get one good one, I'll probably end up with a few crap parts lying around by the end of this process. I'm going to go with billit on a lot of the other parts. If I can do a good cast block then I might as well do a cast crank, although I'm sure billit would be stronger. Thanks for the help guys and I could always use more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuhow Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 By all means, use a billet crank. I think you will spend way too much money trying to cast one. If you want to learn about casting in general check out E funda, here's the link to the sand casting page http://www.efunda.com/processes/metal_processing/sand_casting_intro.cfm typically, you will spend a lot of money on the post casting machine work. oh, and the casting itself wont be cheap. Things like the oil passages that require long drilled holes , called gun drilling, are pricey. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeatrpi Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I stumbled across this last night: http://www.dmdaustralia.com.au/block.html Not particularly useful, but interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 This was posted by another member on another thread. http://www.emachineshop.com They do sand castings and just about anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Thanks for all the help guys! This is great. That link to the healey block was very helpful, it helped me better visualize the molds. I'm going to try to draw a block on that cad program that emachineshop has, see how that works out. I'm thinking that having someone else do the casting would be better (and cheaper) than me trying and failing. I'm trying to get as few things made by casting as possible, then again I'm trying to keep as many of the stock parts as possible. I havn't a clue how this is going to work out but either way thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I stumbled across this last night: http://www.dmdaustralia.com.au/block.html Not particularly useful' date=' but interesting.[/quote'] That's sexy. Lots of fun to look at. Many hours of labor to drool over. Absolutely awsome. So who's gonna start makin' some DOHC head casts for the L28? The block is fine, other than weight. All we need as a killer head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZU Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 There is another way to make small scale production of engine block. TVR's original AJP8 and speed12 blocks are fabricated from STEEL. Pieces are cut from steel plates and pipes then welded together into one piece. Final machine work is similar to that of cast blocks but major oil passages can be built into the design. Kazu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Interesting. By Speed12 you mean Cerbera Speed12 the super car? Can you elaborate more on this block building method please? Any web links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I've never heard of anyone welding a block together, and TVR doesn't have the greatest track record for building "quality products." But that also doesn't mean it can't be done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 TVR's original AJP8 and speed12 blocks are fabricated from STEEL. Pieces are cut from steel plates and pipes then welded together into one piece. hmmm... interesting, I'll have to look into that! Sounds a little bit easier than casting a new block. Anyone have more info? DOHC heads sound sweet, but I dont think theres a big enough market to turn a profit. You might be able to get a couple dozen sold but the high price will keep most people away. Remember that its not just the head that needs to be made but also the new cams, cam drive, valve cover, valves, valve guides, valve seats, and all the machining that has to be done, it wouldn't be cheap. The venture will most likely meet the same end as the last DOHC head that was made. Personally I think that making a block would be easier than making a new head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 The REAL key to making a great head cast would be to take an already great head and make a cast with it and modify it to fit the L series blocks. That way existing parts could be used. Maybe such a method could keep the price down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZU Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I couldn't find anything by google search. In 2001 or 02, Racecar Engineering had an article about TVR's FIA-GT Cebera. Text only explanation about the steel block fabrication, no detailed pic in it. Kazu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 I'm putting the quad cam LS1 project on hold for a little while citing dimensional issues but I'm still chugging away at the flat 12. My partner in crime on this engine is committed to casting the block and I really think that we can get better quicker results via billet. I suppose the war shall continue... Any thoughts? Gollum, your last post gave me an interesting idea, If I can work out some of the details I'll maybe start a thread about it, or perhaps just add to this one. ADD: Well, I did some figuring and fiddling with some numbers and my simple approach to DOHC most likely will be a bigger headache than anything else but I'm willing to go futher in depth time permitting. I think the best bet would be to follow the lead of the guys moding KA24 heads, but instead of bolting or welding the head, cast new ones. Even though there's coolant flying around in there It'll be easier than casting a new block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 If you have real bucks to do this, why not machine it out of billet aluminum. If you are casting your own engine with no experiance, this would be the safer and no doubt cheaper route, remember you'll have to come back and machine every important passage and surface anyway. I bet you could cad model it in such a way to give access to all the prots and such, bolt on, press on, everything else, you may need a couple covers to gain access in certain areas, but for a one-off production, you'll spend that much just machining the molds to make the blanks and then you'll have to worry about bubbles, cracks, incomplete fill, voids, and why go through all that. Industrious project though, good luck. I just wonder what you are thinking you can do better than 100 years of engineering and manufacturing design? I mean GEN I sbc has been track tested for 50 years... you could generally get any size and configuration you could desire with as much money as you will spend on fabricating one from scratch, although for a one off show car it would be a bit more prestige. Sorry for the lecture, I just don't understand the reasoning behind this endevor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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