Chewievette Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 Well I'm playing around with the ls1 because it would be cool as hell, pure and simple(sort of) I'm designing the flat 12 as a pure race motor no compromises Once you get rid of all the economy and durability crap you'll get some serious horses. My dreams have always fallen twards air racing so its no small leap of the imagination to design an engine specifically for it, I dont think that's been done since the 30's! I am going to mill the block out of billet, its the only sensible way to go for a "production" run of two or three engines. I cant even imagine how many castings I'd have to go through to make one good one! Since the 12 is a flat engine the block is substantially less complex, which makes milling it out of a solid chunk that much easier. Its going to take some time but I'll try to keep you posted afterall its not every day someone makes their own engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 If I were you i'd start learning your way around a good 3d editing program (3ds max 7 is killer). It'll really help you get visuals of what you want to do, and also help you communicate with whatever CNC shop you go through. EDIT: LOVE the signature pic BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted October 2, 2005 Author Share Posted October 2, 2005 EDIT: LOVE the signature pic BTW. Thanks! Maybe someday they will be the same thing... Well its not exactly how I want mine but close enough! I've been playing around with the same 2D program for years and know my way around it pretty well, now it looks like I'll be relearning a 3D program, oh well its nice to learn something new once in a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil1934 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 The Crosley had a COBRA engine (COpper BRAzed). http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/furnace/furnace.html http://www.creativecastingco.com http://www.host33.com/casting http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com http://www.emainc.com/radnor/sand.htm http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~dw120996/esp/sand_casting_of_metals.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 This is what happens when people type when high . Are you starting an F1 team? Are you Howard Hughes? There are plenty of good motors that make alot of power and are proven. There is no need to waste time and money doing whats been done. Let GM, Nissan, and Toyota do the R&D. AFR has aftermarket heads for the LS6 that will outflow a Northstar head at a fraction of the cost of casting your own aluminum block. to use with there head. As for making a one of complete motor. Even if the block gets made you still have to make heads and hope they flow. What about a crank? What stroke? I shouldn't take posts so seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Let him follow his dream, it's his dream and he can run it any way he wants. Has anyone ever heard of the SESCO 4 cylinder. Do a google search on that. It was the brainchild of Canaday out of KC, MO in the 80's I belive. My cousin drives house sprint cars for them. The SESCO is a v8 chevy with 1 bank chopped off, using only one side with standard sbc head on the other in a vertical position. Great circle track engine! They also used V4 Johnson outboard engines laying flat, talk about hybrid! We're never going to have something better until somebody thinks it up and tries it. Personally, I thought of doing a v8 chevy as a 2 stroke with a blower in place of the intake manifold, using sleves and ports like a detroit for intake and using 2 exhaust valves instead of one intake and one exhaust, with each exhaust valve alternating opening so the cam gears could stay the same as stock GM. The cam lobes would have to change and the exhaust ports would have to be like a detroit with common ports as well. It wouldn't need oil and gas mixed and could you imagine what kind of power that'd put out?! At 6K it would sound like a v8 at 12K and put out similar HP to what a 4 stroke would put out at 12K, Witchin' Blown 2 stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 This is what happens when people type when high . Are you starting an F1 team? Are you Howard Hughes? There are plenty of good motors that make alot of power and are proven. There is no need to waste time and money doing whats been done. Let GM' date=' Nissan, and Toyota do the R&D. AFR has aftermarket heads for the LS6 that will outflow a Northstar head at a fraction of the cost of casting your own aluminum block. to use with there head. As for making a one of complete motor. Even if the block gets made you still have to make heads and hope they flow. What about a crank? What stroke? I shouldn't take posts so seriously.[/quote'] Well, I ditched the LS6/Northstar idea for that very reason, too much expense for something that just "looks cool" If I do anything with an ls6 it will be to make it a V16, of course I dont have a better reason for that one either... The flat twelve project is entirely different, it Might start out as a stock based "stretch" engine simply because of the cost, but that is Not the end goal. The goal is to make a smaller lighter engine that can out power the big WW2 V12s and radials which currently dominate the unlimited air racing community, If we can build an engine that simply matches the competition it would be profoundly better than the current situation. it is getting more and more difficult to find serviceable parts for those WW2 engines, simply having a modern, new built engine that has parts availability will be enough to swing the market. You can see where I want to go with this, if our one off test engine works I want to go into production with it. Sure the market is small but if it works for auto racing why wouldn't it work for air racing? With the prices that race teams are paying for rebuilt allison and merlin engines my engine would be like pocket change. If you've ever looked into how the teams work now you will quickly see why I'm persuing this so adamantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Let GM, Nissan, and Toyota do the R&D. Many of the great ideas of motor history were imagined by individuals. Sure, race teams make leaps and bounds for knowledge, but there's something to be said for backyard pioneering. And honestly, if more people pursued getting custom blocks cast then more people would be able to afford having thier own custom casts made. Back in the 50's nobody would have thought that in the future you could completly rebuild your motor with aftermarket parts. They were pretty much stuck with what the factory provided for alot of parts. The point i'm getting to is that although the car guy community doesn't have a HUGE push on the automotive future we have a HUGE influence on the aftermarket community. We dictate thier sales. And if companies like greddy could make money on quad TB intake systems for SR motors they'd make them. if WE supply the demand, they'll make the parts. And he has a real point for making a replacement motor for planes. I don't understand alot about plane engines or planes in general, but I do know that if there's a limited supply of engines that's running out someone else will get to finding a replacement before he does. All the more reason for him to get on this idea. Inovation is the road to greatness. Try telling einstein different. PS, this post wasn't meant to undermine your point at all. It was a very valid point. I'm just trying to show that there's more things he's after than just a final power output result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Yup, the allison v-12 is simply an awesome engine, I bet parts are becoming hard to find, but with the bucks they spend I'm wondering why the aftermarket industry isn't making engine parts for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO-Z Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 To simplify your concept, look at using motorcycle water cooled cylinders, ie 450 Honda Motor Crosser, and machine your lower end out of billet aluminum. You could copy there head design. For me I will use what someone else has designed and modify to suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil1934 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Probably the neatest concept in V12's is Audi. VW needed a V6 that would fit where there 4 was, so built one with banks only 15* apart and a common head. I'm guessing it had 409 type chamber in the bore. So Audi thought do this twice and you have a V12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 There is a reason there is a limited number of airplane engines. Actually several reasons. 1. reliability, 2. High HP to weight, 3. Reliability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 acctually the reason there isn't a larger variety of airplane engines is the FAA, have you ever looked into how many hoops you have to pay to jump through to get an engine certificated? It's insane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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