'Hot-roding' what's your definition? (bit of a rant)

[datsunlover]

Had a little problem the other day in a 'performance' shop.. Seams to me that hotroding has turned into buying crap out of a catalouge or 'bolt on/stick on' stuff that the so called 'speed shops' have on their shelves.

 

I tried to explain to 'the guy' behind the counter that I wanted some coil overs for my 86 rx7, because I have a chev V8 in it and the stock springs are not gona cut it for long. Apparently, I've added 600 pounds to the front end and it doesn't mater WHAT coil overs I get, they will just colapse and it'll ride like crap anyway. yah, ok.. The guy says he's done lots of stuff like what I've done, and I'll have to get custom made springs, yada yada. I asked him if he's put a V8 in a 2nd gen RX7. "Well, not an rx7, but it's the same.. " I wanted to smack him, but figured I'd let it go.. Moving along, I then ask if the $380 Autometer electric spedo has a 'pulse' or something out of it, that I could hook up to my computer, as a vehicle speed sensor input. Guy can't comprehend why I have a computer if I'm running a chev V8.. Lets see... When did GM come out with TBI? the 80's?

 

I try to explain that currently my mazda spedo works, but its mis-reading way too high. It has a VSS output, which I have wired to the ECU (700r4 trans came from a car with 2.XX rear gear, my rx7 has 3.90's. I need to play with/swap out the colored gears) As well ascausing shifting problems, whats happening is the speed governor is kicking in when the ECU 'sees' more than 200k, although I'm not really going that fast. But no, I get told that I'm wrong, the signal comes from the TACH and if I over-rev the engine it cuts fuel. Thats whats happening, yup. (I have no tach hooked up right now btw, but if the top end of 3rd is anny indication, 4th has PLENTY to go before an over-rev..) So After all the attitude and rudness this jerk threw at me, I really wanted to jump the counter and smack him around.. but instead I just left.

 

Basicaly, they have lost my buisiness, as well as my respect. What kind of speed shop FROWNS on a car such as the one I've built?!? What kind of idiot tells me he's never done exactly what I've done, but HE knows better... What the hell happend to 'hot rodding' anyway? I thought that's what I was doing.. Use what you have, make things work, BUILD a cool/fast car, with a bit of skill, thought, and some elbow grease..

 

Apparently, that's not what it is anymore.. just buy the same bolt on, stick on, bling bling, anodized, RRRacing, CRAP as every other fool with money to blow, and you're driving a 'hotrod' and it's a 'custom' ride.. Guess I'm not a hotroder, even though I built a car for under $2000 that will stomp on a lot of vehicles that have 10 times that amount dumped into them..

 

*end rant*

 

Well, I feel a little better...

[Guest Battle Pope]

I know exactly what you mean. A lot of that is still done down here in Good 'Ol Orygun cause not everybody has money to blow on direct fit stuff.

[Confused]

I dont think Ive ever delt with anyone like that, and Im glad. Honestly, I would have told the guy exactly what you were thinking. Then I would leave. I dont know how they are still in business.

[tfreer85]

In my opinion the best explanation for me was heard by the show "rides" on TLC and it described the 2 differences in which you are talking about. There are the "Hot-rodders" who buy the bolt ons, have the money for all the shop work with out consideration of cost, nor time spent. More of a toy than an actual car. The other definition for the other group and lack of better terminology "Rat-rodders" in which they do exactly what you've done taken parts from a melee of different brands to make a car that meshes together and is also done on a budget, not necesarily because of not having the money but because anyone can just go out and do what the "hot-rodders" do and bolt something on.

 

That being sad I do commend you on you're ability to restrain yourself when they tell you are wrong when you know you're right, I couldn't have done it. Kudos.

 

Tyson

 

PS-I still want to see some vids of the RX-7 V8

[wheelman]

I've had similar experiences in my local part store. I went in looking for some parts, can't remember exactly what right now, but went through the "engine is from this, tranny from that, rear end from this other car" recitation and got a lecture about how it was anathema to put a chevy motor in a datsun. It's a car for gods sake and my modifying it to fit my tastes has no impact on the well being of anyone but me. I promptly told the guy where he could put his attitude and asked to work with a different parts counter guy. I still do business there because it's one of the better parts stores in town but I will not take advice from anyone in there, I go in tell them what I want and then leave. I guess I've realized I have as much if not more knowledge about what I'm going than the guy behind the counter so I don't even ask anymore. If they are curious then I'll talk but when they start telling me how to do something I turn it off, not the best attitude I know but I've gotten bad info or advice to many times.

 

Wheelman

[280Zone]

We do have some pretty good speed shops local but I am careful to tell them what car I need it for. Conversations seem to go just fine when we are talking about V8 stuff until the "Datsun" word comes up, then all of a sudden nothing they sell will fit my car. Not being in a position to "go else where" I just leave the Datsun word out.

[Guest JAMIE T]

You guys need to find better speed shops. I've been wanting to open my own but can't afford it right now. My shop will be building cars also.

 

I only have trouble at autopart stores. It helps when I go into a speed shop that I already know the answers to my own questions and know what I'm looking for. That's why I'm there, because I'm in the middle of a project and need something. It helps that my only REAL area speed shop is a world class carburator builder, AED. These guys eat, sleep and drink drag racing. Obviously, they don't have RB26 parts, triple disc clutches, short throw shifters for an RB25 trans, coilover conversions, R230 swap parts, etc... I know that already. I would never think of going to them and asking such stupidity. I would however expect them to be able to score me AN lines and fittings, fuel system parts, etc...

 

I went into an "Import" speed shop once and asked about coilovers for my Z. I already knew Ground Control made them. The guy behind the counter said, nope, no one makes them for anything THAT old. I asked him if he could get ground control and he responded yes. I told him he MIGHT want to check them to see IF they MIGHT have them. He called them and sure enough, they have them. $400, The same price I could get them for directly from Gound Control. The guy was stunned. It wasn't his fault he didn't know. It was his fault that he didn't bother to check before spewing BS to me. He received an education, I didn't buy the GC's. LOL! Do not get me start about regular autoparts stores!

[Zerrari GTO]

'Hot-roding' what's your definition?

 

Weren't the origional "hot-rodders" guys who were swapping flathead V8's into model T's???

 

What we are doing IS hot-roding; enginuity, imagination, skill, fabrication....

 

A fart box and aftermarket air cleaner does not make a "hot rod"!!!

[b__sosick]

Did you really build such a beast rx7 for under 2k?! BADASS ALERT

 

 

 

And don't be disgruntled by the dicks in the shops. Most of them, as you just found out, don't know **** anyhow.

 

I gave up on local shops and stores long ago.

 

Apparently, all nissans are ricers and I'm a moron for being in love with them so much. Haha.

[zuhow]

My definition of hot rodding is clear and concise:

 

make it fast

and make it yourself

 

basically the exact opposite of the prowler that was (is) mildly popular, I call that a "costume".

[b__sosick]

You guys need to find better speed shops. I've been wanting to open my own but can't afford it right now. My shop will be building cars also.

 

I only have trouble at autopart stores. It helps when I go into a speed shop that I already know the answers to my own questions and know what I'm looking for. That's why I'm there' date=' because I'm in the middle of a project and need something. It helps that my only REAL area speed shop is a world class carburator builder, AED. These guys eat, sleep and drink drag racing. Obviously, they don't have RB26 parts, triple disc clutches, short throw shifters for an RB25 trans, coilover conversions, R230 swap parts, etc... I know that already. I would never think of going to them and asking such stupidity. I would however expect them to be able to score me AN lines and fittings, fuel system parts, etc...

 

I went into an "Import" speed shop once and asked about coilovers for my Z. I already knew Ground Control made them. The guy behind the counter said, nope, no one makes them for anything THAT old. I asked him if he could get ground control and he responded yes. I told him he MIGHT want to check them to see IF they MIGHT have them. He called them and sure enough, they have them. $400, The same price I could get them for directly from Gound Control. The guy was stunned. It wasn't his fault he didn't know. It was his fault that he didn't bother to check before spewing BS to me. He received an education, I didn't buy the GC's. LOL! Do not get me start about regular autoparts stores![/quote']

 

 

GET THE GCs

 

The z I'm buying has em and they are wonderful :]]]

 

Sorry didn't edit quote I'm posting from my hiptop

[DavyZ]

...It's a car for gods sake and my modifying it to fit my tastes has no impact on the well being of anyone but me...

 

Gosh that was beautiful *sniff* and well spoken

 

 

Davy

[Sparky]

oh dont get me started!

 

for such a large conurbation, Bexar county/San Antonio, has very few knowledgable AND open minded shops. Alamo performance and Alamo Hot-Rod parts are the only guys I can deal with and tell them what I have. when dealing with all the others I have to know what part im looking for and tell them that I the car that the part goes on. If im looking for multiple parts I just tell them I have multiple cars, otherwise I get the ole' "that part wont fit on your car" speach. BS!

 

My personal favorite is when I call a local import place about parts the carry..."umm yes we carry brand XXXX part." me-" ok ill be right there" only to find that when I get there by carrying it they mean "here is the catolog, we can order it for you." well....SO CAN I! and probably get it cheaper as well.

 

 

bah, all in all though my projects are accepted the Majority of the time...its just those few occasions that bother me.

 

 

longest post in a long time....sorry

[grumpyvette]

most guys seem to build things strictly from available catalog parts, while theres little wrong with that, if your goal is just a faster car, it leaves a HUGE amount of individual modification and custom fabrication skills unused ,that in most cases can and should be done/used to built a TRUE hot rod

my deffinition of a hot rod is a car with a custom built drive train, and other mods to increase performance

if you don,t own and know exactly how to use basic tune up and diagnostic testing equipment and a welder and a drill press, measuring tape,caliper, and a vise in your shop, Id bet your not into fabricating your own parts, and your just a parts installer

are you a true hotrodder? or just a guy installing aftermarket parts on your car?

 

And what I mean by that is most people who are into cars and have a fairly fast car/s ESPECIALLY TODAY, simply add some aftermarket parts to increase, the cars potential horsepower or braking ability or change its looks.

While the old-time hot rodders, tended to look at a project, and say OK I want the best I can find, trade for or build!!,that includes the, rear end diff. the interior, front suspension, brakes, ENGINE,TRANSMISSION, paint job, Tires,ETC. available!

I want the best performance!

I want too build it my way!

Now if that meant in your opinion that you wanted crysler hemi engine ,the Buick transmission, a FORD suspension , and all installed, in an early Pontiac, because you happen to like the styling of that car, you sat down and figured out how to accomplish it. You knew from the start that there was no way you could buy parts do it, you had to sit down and figure out how to get it all assembled you had to do all your own measuring and in most cases you had to build a lot of your OWN CUSTOM parts. You had to understand how things worked. Why they worked! And what it would take to get certain systems to work with other systems. You had to know a lot about welding and machining of parts or have a big enough wallet to have somebody else do it for you!

Your goal was basically to build something totally unique, and in many cases much faster than Detroit could or would produce, hopefully installed in a package to not only looked good. But Ran good, something that was relatively trouble-free, and something all your friends would admire! In short something you could be eminently proud of!

in short I think the hobby of building fast / custom cars, is losing something, it every part you put in the car can be ordered off the catalog pages.

a GREAT deal of this hobby used to be involved in finding out how to fit and make systems designed for differant cars work togeather in a way that at least potentially improved the result over anything that could be purchased from any dealer!

or put another way... IVE personally got a whole lot more respect and appreciation for some guy that installed a 500 caddy engine in a 240 Z datsun that looks like it was factory installed that only runs 12 flat quarter mile times than some guy that buys a ZO6 corvette and adds a $1000 nitrous system that runs 11.5 second quarter mile times

and no it does NOT need to be ALL chevy to be a good combo,BUT it won,t hurt much to install a KILLER BIG BLOCK in almost anything)

just the work'/skills needed learned to install a v8 and trans in a datsun goes a long way towards making you gentelmen true hot rodders

 

YOUR THOUGHTS GENTELMAN????

[A. G. Olphart]

Thanks, Grumpy, I needed that.

 

Some day I will even get my Datsun 240Z- 240SX- 280ZX- 300ZX- Chevy- Oldsmobile- VW- Ford- aftermarket- custom machined- home fabricated car on the road.

But first, I need a few more parts...

[b__sosick]

haha A.G. your avatar made me go..."huh?"

[A. G. Olphart]

b- My engine build is too tame to really warrant the battle flag, but I like combining symbols/logos.

Glad you found it interesting.

 

Years ago I had a 289 Healey hybrid, and a jacket with the Ford blue oval nested in Healey wings on the back. Guess it must be a personal tradition.

[b__sosick]

you call it tame, yet it could probably smoke what I have/am getting.

 

 

where can I see it?

[Chaparral2f]

As usual, you've hit the nail on the head. I've been building hotrods since I was a kid, and learned most of the little bit I know from having to "just do it". I see a lot of people here that are learning the same way. IMO, this is a really good sign for the future of hotrodding. Now because of the almost half a century of technology advances, buying parts is easier, and in many cases cheaper that doing it yourself. For instance, many years ago I built a chevy six with three single carter carbs and a split exhaust. If I had been able to go out and buy an intake manifold and header I would have done it in a second. It would have been much easier, but at the same time I wouldn't have learned about welding cast iron. I still would rather go to a junk yard, than a parts store. A fast car is cool, but getting that Hemi to fit the Buick tranny is the challange, and that is the fun part of it all.

YOUR THOUGHTS GENTELMAN????

Sir, I do not take being called a Gentleman ligthtly. After all, I've spent years becoming the old jerk that I am today!:)

[BrandonsZ]

Wow, I might be a hot-rodder... I didn't even realize it. I thought I was just a greese monkey/fabricator who had way too much time and money on my hands.

 

I'm streching a little with the stock diff, brakes, suspension, tires, but I think I can apply myself to Grumpy's post, cool. I mean I didn't make my oun driveshaft, but I had to have it made to my specs, I didn't make the engine mounts although I had to grind on them a bit to make the headers fit, I didn't make the transfer plate between the LS1 tranny and old school block, but that's not exactly an off the shelf part. I did fabricate (weld) from J-bends and straight pipe the 3" exhaust and everything else though. I think that counts. But I wouldn't consider myself to be a hot-rodder unless I tear into that crate motor and make it better too. I think I'll leave this one and tear into my truck motor. I'm less concerned with gas mileage there.

 

Thanks Grumpy.