N/A sr20???

[Lewis Maudlin]

You people are crazy. Swap in a small truck motor??? The KA. I don't think you will save any weight and the motor puts out less hp stock than the L28e N/A. Tops hp for a reliable KA is 200whp on stock internals. Instead of putting in that little motor, how about real weight savings. I have a Kohler I will sell you. The motor weighs about 80 lbs. I am sure that with a little tweaking you could get 12 or maybe even 13 hp. But you would save a lot of weight and have all kinds of extra space for storage up front.

 

I do mean to sound sarcastic, but, swapping in a small heavy inferior motor just doesn't make sense. The SR20DET is just as supported on the aftermarket, just not in the pick and pull. It is a lot lighter and can make huge hp on stock internals.

 

I wonder if anyone has put a KA in a Silvia. That may be a good swap for you Olie.

[tfreer85]

Umm wow, you need to go out and do a lot more research on the KA before calling it an inferior motor. These http://www.import-autoperformance.com/ do a pretty damn good job with a KA. Everyone is always so quick to jump on the KA, because of its weight, and the fact that the SR20DET is supposedely this far superior motor. Yes the SR is great but it also has its down fall, just as any motor does. If you're going for cheap, and cheaper to maintain (more readily available parts) go with a KA-T.

Here's a couple of links for aftermarket parts for them:

camshafts http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/cam_corner.html

flywheels short shifters: http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/power.html

forged Connecting rods: http://www.240sxmotoring.com/connectingrods.html

Forged Pistons: http://www.240sxmotoring.com/jepiforka.html

 

Turbo Kits:

http://www.jgycustoms.com/240sx/turbokits.htm

http://www.import-autoperformance.com/240sxstage1.html

http://www.phatka-t.com/s13turbokits.htm

then of course ebay.

 

I'm not wanting a KA/SR argument, but don't be so quick to through it out because its heavier than an SR, and was offered in a truck. its still a very potent engine.

 

Tyson

[240Z_Master]

hmmm.. knowing that the vildini mounts work with a KA is sparking my interest. I know N/A KA parts are readily available. Even with the Iron block' date=' I will still save weight over the L28 it would be replacing.Maybe I will be the first person to swap a KA into a Z?

[/quote']

 

 

Just so you don't get your hopes up or anything. But Vildini mounts are not mounts like Rick Wong where you just bolt to the car and bolt to the motor. I think they put the motors far back to where the motor is basically mounted on the inner frame rails. And that requires welding.

[olie05]

I did my research on the vildini mounts, I'm not afraid of them. I just don't want to have to make my own mounts from scratch.

 

As for you, lewis maudlin, I see a huge advantage to having a KA engine over the L28, it has a crossflow head, 4 valves per cylinder, and the exhaust doesn't heat up the intake to insane temperatures. It would definitely be lighter too, since it is smaller and made out of the same materials as the L28.

 

The L engine was a truck engine too!! so whats the problem with swaping in another truck engine. How many chevy small blocks are in Z's and how many of thos same SB's are in trucks also??? don't go raggin' on truck engines.

 

now, comparing the KA to the SR is another story. But that has been discussed in other threads.

 

Basically the way I see it: L28 < KA24DE < SR20DE

 

oh btw, how much you want for that kohler? lol

[Lewis Maudlin]

Of course the KA can be built with all new parts. Forged connecting rods and pistons. That doesn't sound cheaper than an SR. Buy a crate SR or buy a KA for nothing then do a complete rebuild with all new internals. Then add a turbo kit.

 

+Then you have a motor with parts you know.

 

However, you have spent almost as much money.

 

- you have less HP

- you have more weight

- you have less potential HP

 

I don't mean to argue, but am I missing something here?

[240Z_Master]

I did my research on the vildini mounts' date=' I'm not afraid of them. I just don't want to have to make my own mounts from scratch.

[/quote']

 

Like I said, you will still need to weld and what not. They aren't drop in mounts.

[Hugh]

It seems some of you guys are too quick to jump on other people's comments.. and you haven't read everything here:

 

well' date=' some of the other reasons I want to go to an I-4 is because of fuel economy. If an SR20det can provide the same amount of fuel savings as an N/A one, then I'll be all over it. Then there is also price. I have noticed that N/A sr's are cheaper than Turbo ones. Plus turbocharged engines are always asking for more, (intercooler, piping, bov, DP, etc...) whereas an N/A engine, just drop in, hook up the exhaust and stick on a pipe and filter for the intake. One less thing to worry about for me.

[/quote']

 

 

He said he would prefer not to go turbo.

 

Yes, an SR20DET is a much simpler turbo motor than a KA24DE+T. Thats not what is in question here.

 

I'd take a KA24DE with 155 real horsepower over this L28 gas hog oil pumper in my car right now making 90hp or whatever it is. I drove several 240sx's, and that motor moves the 2800lb+ 240sx pretty damn well. A LOT better than this L28 is doing for me right now.

 

Also, any motor can be built for power. Swapping everything out for forged, yada yada yada... no kidding. You can put a supercharged Honda engine in it with forged internals and make it fly. Thats not what he's trying to accomplish here.

 

SO back down to earth, anyone have a reason he shouldn't put a KA in the car?

[Gollum]

I'd go with the KA. It's got more part support over here in the USA and doesn't have substantially less potencial than other NA 4 bangers. As long as you're not looking for tons of power the NA will give better results.

 

The KA is also quite a tourque monster for a 4 cylinder engine. I think it'll get a Z around with ease. And like hugh said, the SX scoots fine, and the Z is a lighter car and the stock engine can get left in the dust by almost every new car out on the road. I think a KA with some light mods (ecu, flywheel, clutch, intake, header) would yeild a very nice town car Z that gets awsome mileage. None of the mods I mention have to take away MPG and will more likelly enhance it.

 

The choice is yours, but if it were my choise, i'd go KA. (note, i might go with a KA in the future because I'm in an area where I have to keep any swap legal due to heavy cop presence and smog requirements, leaving me with few options)

[Guest grimlynsan]

It seems some of you guys are too quick to jump on other people's comments.. and you haven't read everything here:

 

He also said:

"some of the other reasons I want to go to an I-4 is because of fuel economy. If an SR20det can provide the same amount of fuel savings as an N/A one, then I'll be all over it"

 

I would venture that an SR20DET would be more fuel efficient BECAUSE it has a turbo.

 

Hence my earlier comments about the SR20DET

[olie05]

Hey olie let sparky or I know about the engine so I can get it out of the corner of my garage. Hey sparky I would rather not have to find a crate and take this to a shipping company (they don't like coming to my house) so I prefer if you could pick it up.

 

Yeah, i'm not ready for this swap yet... so i'm not down for it.

 

I'm sad to say that this thread has turned into a N/A version of the KA vs SR thread. I think i have made a choice though. I really want to run the KA, mostly because not very many people have done it, and because it will be very cheap. Also, once I do the swap I will be able to provide factual information about how this swap works in a S30 as opposed to all the hypothetical ones I have been flooded with in this thread. (although most of them have been helpful so far.) and yes, I already have the megasquirt system and harness, so management is going to be fully programmable.

 

N/A KA!!! here i come...

[Gollum]

Keep us updated. I'll fallow the swap closely.

 

And a final note i'd like to make. Grimlynsan, I bet a turbo would be more fuel efficiant "IF" we're talking about the same HP/duty numbers. Around town a 250HP turbo motor will most likely consume more fuel than the same motor running NA at a higher compresison, even if you're keeping your foot out of it. If you take a NA motor and turbo it, MPG will do down, period. BUT, that doesn't mean you can make a turbo motor with good MPG. It's all give and take and what HP range you're shooting for.

[SR240Z]

Keep us updated. I'll fallow the swap closely.

 

And a final note i'd like to make. Grimlynsan' date=' I bet a turbo would be more fuel efficiant "IF" we're talking about the same HP/duty numbers. Around town a 250HP turbo motor will most likely consume more fuel than the same motor running NA at a higher compresison, even if you're keeping your foot out of it. If you take a NA motor and turbo it, MPG will do down, period. BUT, that doesn't mean you can make a turbo motor with good MPG. It's all give and take and what HP range you're shooting for.[/quote']

 

I dont know about that projectrb240sx was making 252whp and getting 25-30mpg with boosting every now and then. We had a customer with an L28 e31 head with triple mikunis making 250whp and he said he was getting around 12-15mpg.

[Thumper]

n/a ka it is. My friend had a 93 240sx with just an intake an a pacesetter head it ran a high 15's. His car weighed in at 2970 with out him in it. So my quess you could lose atleast 400 if not 500lbs and be in the 14's right then and there. Put some good headers, shave the head a bit, some cams, and megasquirt you should be looking at 170wrhp. Same as your current engine just 50-75lbs lighter.

[Gollum]

SR240Z, apples and oranges. Carbed big displacement SOHC NA VS small displacement EFI DOHC Turbo. Cross flow VS non cross flow.

 

My statement is that if you take an NA motor and turbo it, you're guarenteed a MPG loss. Now, certain motors CAN have good MPG turbo'd compared to other NA motors.

 

The main thing is that a turbo motor will have to work less for the same HP amound as a NA motor. What that means in reality is that if you take a NA motor to high HP levels effeciancy drops WAY down. In many cases, we're not looking at HP requirements to get us into the 12's, we're looking for a high 13 low 14 sec street car that gets 30-35+MPG.

[Guest PROJECTRB240SX]

My Sr20det On Stock Boost (which Is About 206whp) Gets Me 25-32mpg (depending On If Its Stop And Go Or Highway) And Down The Qaurter In 13.1.... With 15 Psi Of Boost The Car Makes 50 More Hp And Has No Loss Of Efficiency (because Street Driving Sees Little To No Boost Depending On The Driver).

 

If You Would Take A N/a High Compression Motor And Slap A Turbo On It Yes You Would Have Fuel Effciency Problems.... Well Unless You Area Miracle Worker! You Would Have To Increase The Amount Of Fuel Ingested To Compensate For The High Compression And Boost, The Benefit Is More Power With Less Boost. But Again Thats Only If Your In Boost All The Time And Street Driving Rarely Sees Boost.

[Hugh]

Man, I don't know where you guys get all that mileage from. I guess I spend too much time with my foot in the throttle and the boost maxed out to get anywhere over 20mpg.

 

I got about 17mpg or a little more with almost 100% city driving and a lot of punching it when driving late at night/early in the morning. That was with a 395rwhp SR20DET with a big, laggy turbo.

 

One thing I learned is that gas mileage goes up with a laggy turbo. The reason is that you're not building boost all the time while just cruising, and making less horsepower in the cruising range. (therefore using less fuel) I went from ~14mpg with the stock turbo to ~17mpg with the T04S.

 

 

In a comparable apples to apples EFI 4 cylinder comparison, you MUST realize that making more horsepower uses more fuel. It's not rocket science. Nissan put 270cc injectors on a 155hp KA24DE. They put 370cc injectors on the 205hp SR20DET. To make more power, you must increase duty cycle, and eventually increase injector size. This is because more horsepower requires more fuel.

 

Putting a turbo on a motor doesn't reduce fuel consumption in any way. It will only increase it. Period.

[johnc]

I'm getting close to closing this thread. You guys need to stop making such absolute statements about this engine vs. that engine without bringing tech to back up your assertions. And when I mean tech, you need links to third party stuff, not just your own opinion.

[Thumper]

Also this thread is not about a turbo gas mileage it is about sr20de n/a vs ka24de n/a. Although I would turbo my lawn mower if I had the chance. He is mostly worried about weight and power delivery then gas mileage. I think n/a the ka24de for a 280z would be better than the sr20de. Because the displacement and torque. Also you still can rev those to 7k.

[Guest grimlynsan]

Putting a turbo on a motor doesn't reduce fuel consumption in any way. It will only increase it. Period.

 

i'm sorry Hugh but i disagree totally. I don't want to start a flame war with you and respect your opinion and your right to have it. No I don't have any tech data to back my claims up and I don't intend to find any. Unless I saw data from a reputable source that said I was wrong I wouldn't change my opinion on the matter.

 

Perhaps (unless the said data comes to the for) we should just agree to disagree. If no hard data arrises we could have some kind of poll but that should be for another thread another day.

 

I apologise to mods if this post continues this debate (I am officially withdrawing from it).

 

Thanks,

Grimynsan

[Guest 81na ZX]

This is from the US EPA.

 

A 1992 automatic Eagle Talon, 2.0 NA gets 22 city/27 highway

A 1992 automatic Eagle Talan, 2.0 Turbo gets 18 city/21 highway

 

The ONLY difference between the cars is one is turbo the other isn't. Both are 4G63's, both weigh the same, both have the same drivewheels, both have the same cD