Shooting for 350hp

[Nissan-Fan]

Hey guys, i have a 350sbc with a TH350, and i am shooting for about 350hp to the wheels, this is the comb i am going with.

New rings, Main and Cam bearings, 650cfm Edelbrock, Performer intake manifold, 270 Comp cam, lifters, MSD ignition system with rev limiter, P&P 305 heads, and sanderson headers. What else do i need to do in order to make around 350hp? i have not dynoed the engine yet, i plan on doing so when the car is 100% finished. Also, is this a good head choice for my engine? some people tell me that it is a good choice for high compression, others say that the flow restrictions are not worth it, even with a decent port and polish job.

[Alf]

making 350hp is one thing at the flywheel and a totally different can off worms to the rear tires. the engine would have to be in the 425 to 450hp range. i have a 355 in my 69 camaro that i have calculated to be 341hp to the tires and 424 at the engine, heres the specs: 1974 350 block, 30 overbore, cast crank, stock rods, speedpro cast flat tops with speedpro rings, moroso 7 quart kick out sump pan, 69 Z/28 windage tray, comp cams 274 extreme energy hydraulic flat tappet, .490/.483 lift, comp lifters and matching springs, 1967 462 casting "double hump" chevy heads; angle milled, ported, stainless swirl polished undercut 2.02/1.60 valves, 3 angle valve job, screw in studs, guide plates, crane 1.5 roller rockers edlebrock performer RPM intake, match ported to heads, stock rebuilt chevy points distributor MSD cap-adapt with pertronix ignition and MSD 6AL CD box, MSD super conductor wires, 750 cfm Holley DP, K&N 14/4 inch air filter, dynomax ceramic coated headers.

 

this combo is very streetable and has propelled my stock weight camaro to a best of 12.82 at 108mph. the msd box is the key to drivabillity with this combo. a z should go low 12's.

[Mike C]

My motor is very similar to Alf's. My car has run 12.67@110 with a best 2.0 short time. I figure 365 at the wheels, 430 at the flywheel. My car weighs 3550# with me in it. I have a set of 492 heads which are a little newer design, but still the same family as the 462. Mine are also ported and polished. They are loaded with Manley 2.02/1.60 undercut stem valves and have had 1.437 springs installed as well as screw in studs. I have a lot more cam, at least as far as lift. 236@.050 and .530 after the lash comes out. In either case, our heads are much better than your 305 smoggers, but I'll argue that they are holding our motors back as well. At minimum, get a set of GM Vortec iron heads. There are more aftermarket small block heads than you can shake a stick at. Best bang for the buck IMO, get a complete Vortec 5.7l motor and swap in a cam and aftermarket intake. Already has hydraulic roller so will save you a few bucks. But if you want FI, skip straight to an LT1. A complete iron head motor shouldn't set you back more than $750, and will run circles around your old school combo.

 

In a drag simulator program, leaving everything the same but trimming 1000# off by putting motor in a 240, car runs 10.90's...

[Alf]

yeah a better set of heads would probly help out a bit. my cars best 60' is 1.78

[grumpyvette]

Id suggest looking thru these sites, keeping in mind 350hp at the rear wheel requires about 450 flywheel hp

 

http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

 

http://www.chevyasylum.com/chp/

 

combo that kicks butt for a reasonable price

 

 

I get asked all the time for a reasonably priced combo that makes good power for the money spent

 

 

heres the least expensive combo I can find, that should make excellent power for the cash outlay, its designed for a manual trans car with a 3.73-4.11 rear gear or an auto trans with similar gearing and a 3000rpm stall converter

 

http://motorworksengines.theshoppe.com/

1026 N. Haven

Spokane, WA 99202

1-800-551-1685

 

383 stroker kit #

 

Balanced!!!!!

 

Chevy 383 Rotating Assembly with Split Seal!!!

 

Includes:

 

Sealed Power Moly Rings, Clevite Tri-Metal Bearings, Sealed, Hypereutectic Coated Power Pistons, Flat Top or Dish, your choice, SCAT 383 Stroker Crank, Sunnen Reconditioned QEK Rods, Pioneer Harmonic Balancer, Pioneer Flex Plate.

 

Balanced using state-of-the-art, computer controlled Hines 500cc. Balances to .02 grams!

 

No Crank or Rod cores required!!!

 

 

$660

 

[ TFS-30400001 Trick Flow 23 Degree Aluminum Cylinder Heads for Small Chevy

Cylinder Head, 23 Degree, Aluminum, Assembled, 62cc Chamber, 195cc Intake Runner, Chevy, 302/ 327/ 350/ 400,Pa...

Today $1,025.95

 

CAM

 

[http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=crane+114681&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp&x=30&y=10

$110

 

oil pan/pump,pickup

 

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=15120K&line=MWM

 

$90

 

intake

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=52026&line=MWM

$140

 

CARB

http://store.summitracing.com/default.as...mp;x=11&y=9

 

$223

add a 4.030 bore block and some other parts and your well on your way to building a respectable torque monster, for aproximately $3000plus machine work and your block plus some parts from your current engine, given some tuning and a good exhaust you should get close to 450hp and 445 tq at the flywheel

You really should get these books and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal, while only the basic info is presented it still makes for a good knowledge base, and reference.

 

heres some other things to look over

 

http://www.built4speed.com/

 

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/71298/index4.html

 

http://www.speedomotive.com/building%20tips.htm

 

http://www.strokerkits.com/build_your_own_383.htm

 

http://www.dumpit.org/grimreaper/reaper_engine.htm

 

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/77458/

 

 

if you decide to build a 383-406-427 youll want to buy an INTERNALLY BALLANCED ROTATING ASSEMBLY

 

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/smblckrotatingkits02.html

 

and I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST (H) style cap screw connecting rods with 7/16" rod bolts

 

 

BUT you really should get these books FIRST and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal,AND SAVE YOU YEARS AND THOUSANDS OF WASTED DOLLARS, while only the basic info is presented it still makes for a good knowledge base, and referance[/color]

 

IF YOU SMART ENOUGHT TOO DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR FIRST and

buy these books, [color:"red"] it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy youll save thousands of dollars and thousands of hours once youve got a good basic understanding of what your trying to do! IF YOUR ON A VERY LIMITED BUDGET START WITH BOOKS 3,4,AND 5, ONLY BUT YOU NEED AT LEAST THOSE BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE

 

[ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0912656069/ref=pd_sxp_elt/102-1234339-0571324?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1557880298/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

 

HOW TO BUILD THE SMALL BLOCK CHEVEROLET by LARRY ATHERTON&LARRY SCHREIB

.

HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD

.

JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines

 

THE heads and cam that you use will have the most effect on the combos results so spend the time and money there

[Oldestzguy]

I hope "ALL" of us here realize how valuable all of this "filtered with experience" information is that Grumpyvette is so willing to share with us. Alone, some of us could throw thousands and thousands of dollars at each engine situation and still come up with nothing really productive. I am a GM of a Mercedes, BMW shop and can't get two mechanics to agree on how to change spark plugs, much less create reliable, cheap, horsepower from scratch..

[Nissan-Fan]

So i guess realisticly im shooting for 350hp at the crank? thats still enough for me, when i get the motor in it i will be buying a 5.7 Vortec, doing a stroker kit, then finally turbocharging it, so this motor is not perminant.

[grumpyvette]

heres more old previously posted info that may help

 

its always best to install a high capacity baffled oil pan designed for the stroker crank clearances and a windage screen,and be aware when ordering as to which side the dipstick is on the block and the new oil pan is if you buy a new oil pan, BUT, I understand that price is an issue so...

 

one of the little tricks in engine building, is to place that one piece gasket on the block in its normal location, use the 4 corner locating studs in the block as index points, then slowly rotate the crank, notice exactly where the rods/rodbolts come closest to the gasket on all eight cylinders and mark on the inside edge of the gasket with a marker the exact spot,you now move the gasket to the oil pan and mark those spots,if its just minor rod bolt edge contact you may need to only grind a small amount from the rod bolt edges that hit,or from the oil pan rail, if you do grind thru,to cause a potential leak,weld or braze the area thicker,if you don,t own a welder, any good welding shop can build up the outside material enought to allow the clearance without leaks, now take a ball peen hammer and give each location a good hard TAP, (DON,T get crazy),reinstall the pan and check for contact while rotating the crank,repeat procedure untill theres no contact points,

yeah I know..your thinking your going to be bending the pan rail so it wont seal correctly.your correct IF you get excessive but in most cases the small dents are so minor thats that not a valid concern

btw owning, or having friends that own some type of quality welder is almost mandatory in this hobby, and you don,t need a extremely expensive welder in most cases, but the longer your in the hobby the more youll come to realize the advantages of the better welders and the skill of the better weldors

 

you might also want to know that cheap high capacity baffled oil pans of very good quality for the price are available for many applications, I buy pans from these guys constantly

 

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_cat.php?id=17

 

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_sub.php?id=33

a correctly built 383 similar to that 383 described above (similar to that #71 build but with the mods described )should easilly get into the 12s N/A .

yes a cast crank will work,but if nitrous is planed ID STRONGLY SUGGEST forged parts, and the stock oil pan flat out is far less than IDEAL, while this may not fit something similar is advised

 

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=11330

 

 

http://www.milodon.net/main.htm

 

 

the pan I have on my 383 looks similar to the top pan EXCEPT THAT I have had the sump extended forward to within 3" of the front edge, or about where that side bulge stops and it holds 10 qts

 

"Stroking a 350 to 383 will require lots of clearancing and machine work "

 

to that I can only reply A BIG ..... B.S.....Ive built dozens of 383 and 396 sbc engines and the clearancing can be done BY YOUR OWN HANDS with a standard HAND HELD drill and a few CARBIDE BURRS OR GRIND STONES in that drill in well under two hours if you take your time and total expence even if you need to buy that drill and burrs will be well under $50 total

http://www.click-onsource.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=OVAL_1-4_Shank

 

buy a 1/2" burr and a cheap drill

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20776&item=4358782476&rd=1

 

place you old bearings in the block an place the crank in those bearings after coating them with axle grease

slowly rotate the crank and grind minimum of .060 clearance and try NOT to grind more than about .070 any place it touches the block (use a LARGE size paper clip as a gauge if you don,t have feeler gauges)

next assemble two connecting rod and pistons, one connecting rod and piston for the left one connecting rod and piston for the right, use old bearings coated with axle grease and no rings on the pistons, assemble them to the crank and grind anyplace the rods touch the block grind minimum of .060 clearance and try NOT to grind more than about .070 any place it touches the block (use a LARGE size paper clip as a gauge if you don,t have feeler gauges)move them to the next journal and repeat untill all 4 journals and 8 connecting rods clear. now assemble all eight rods and pistons without rings and install them in thier correct locations and recheck everthing carefully.

next intall the cam and index it corectly with the timeing chain/gears, rotate the engine slowly and look for clearance issues, youll need to use a small base cam if they are major but in most cases if your cams lift and duration is under about 230 at .05 and .500 lift there should be minor if any clearance issues, usually the outside edge of a rod bolt head is the only area needing a touch up.

 

once everything clears, wash all the parts VERY CAREFULLY ,TWICE and re-oil then send out to be ballanced now you might ask why do that! well, first youll know its done correctly, and that a correctly built 383 will have a very significant hp and torque advantage over any similar 327 or 350

 

just some random info

 

http://www.angelfire.com/wv/fuzzychevy/406450.html

 

http://www.bracketmasters.com/small_block_stroker_383_cu.htm

 

 

btw you want , to look over #71, # 101, #92

http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos12.html

 

notice the similarities in that all use good heads, and cams match the compression ratios and all are 383 or larger

 

"Pardon me for being stupid Grupmy but what is being grinded upon, the block?"

 

 

this may help

the comon areas are the area near the block oil pan rail where the rod bolts touch

and the lower inner cylinder walls and where the cam lobes touch the rod bolts upper shoulder on some types of rods, now you can,t grind on the cam, but you can grind the edge of the rod bolt and you can use a small base circle cam to give greater clearances

 

 

 

http://www.karl-ellwein.org/2005engineprojects/388project.htm

[Guest zfan]

Grumpy is right, clearancing a motor is no big deal. One of the secrets is taking your time and doing it right the first time. I built my 383 and love it.

 

After a few builds I splurged and went full forged 11 to 1. Motor is not radical by any means and has gone 7.16 in the 1/8th and low 11's in the 1/4. I drove it to the track and home! I even run a 700r4 overdrive auto, with a 350 turbo tranny I probably could go faster.

 

By the way my combo only goes 365hp and 402Tq to the rear wheels so you don't need much. Its hp to weight ratio's that count.

 

Mike

[Guest tony78_280z]

{Isnt there a way to subscribe to a thread without posting to it?}

Good info, keep it coming !! I'm planning for my first rebuild and the direction I want to go with it myself.

[Guest rick458]

Correct me if I am wrong but I have always heard/read that a TH350 has the wrong gearing for a Z rearend ratio

[Mikelly]

I have a brand new 383 stroker w/ forged bottem end (Eagle Hbeam rods and Forges Wiesco Pistons), with aluminum heads (Dart 202/160 valves) and a custom intake/ FI system using Holley System Commander and ecu all brand new, motor assembled with Canton RR oil pan, and S&S headers, Flywheels to Balancer that I'll let go Cheap with build book and all the efi Wiring... This is the best of the best in a 383 stroker that will be making well over 450Crank HP... (Desk Top Dyno spit out over 500CHP)

 

Contact me offline for price on this BRAND NEW professionally assembled Bowtie block based 383 stroker... I'd like to go the LS1/6 route, so I'll let this complete and never used package go for a reasonable price.

 

Mike

[Mike C]

Not to hijack the motor thread, but the TH350 has a 2.52 first gear. This is not unreasonable for a 3.54 rear gear in a V8 Z. Especially considering GM used the same with a 2.41 gear in mid-70's big cars. Actually our old '81 4x4 Jimmy had a 305 the TH350 and 2.41 gears with 31" tires. It was way undergeared, but just serves to illustrate what GM could get away with pre-OD.

 

In a street/strip Z looking for 11's, the TH350 and a 3.70 rear are nearly ideal.

 

Overdrive makes a huge difference if you are building a daily driver. I am not a big fan of the TH700R4 for a performance trans because of the huge drop between 1st and 2nd gear. I think the TH200 4R has a much more realistic gear spread and more OD. It is also shorter than the 700 making for a longer driveshaft which helps with angles and vibration. IMO, the best choice in auto trans.

[Nissan-Fan]

damn mike, i would love to buy your 383, but im nothing more than a poor 16 year old.

 

Sadly, my JTR book is at a pals house right now, anyone remember how tough it is to put a Chev T5 in my datsun? with the setup my 350 is running, would the T5 hold out? because i just came across a T5 from a V8 Camaro for around $400 with bellhousing and clutch, dont know if i should bite or not.

[Mike C]

THe T5 is great IMO. Just not a race car trans. See other thread, T56 vs. T5. $400 is a fair deal for a complete GM V8 T5, if it is an '89 or newer, it's a great deal.

[Mikelly]

That's a very good price for that T5. I'd jump on it so long as it if it isn't popping out of gears or grinding going into or out of gear... Especially with everything included...

 

Mike

[Nissan-Fan]

Great, ill pick it up pretty soon!

 

While im at it, why not ask a couple more questions? no need for new threads.

 

The one part of this project that really has be in a bind is the suspension. If there is one "man" im not, its suspension, definetly not a suspension man.

My question is, if you had a 1978 Datsun 280z, what exactly would you buy from MSA or Victoria British for suspension? im not even sure what bushing replacements i should buy, considering i want new Struts, Springs, coilovers, swaybars, and the JTR mounts and cross members. if anyone could go through and makes some suggestions as to what i should buy, i would be a very happy person. Also, if i got a new brake master cylinder, lines, Premium pads, Shoes, rotors and drums, would this provide enough stopping power? i really dont want to convert to rear disk, too pricey.

[MusPuppis]

You can do a search on brakes to get some really good info, but my understanding of the matter is that the stock system, working in top order with premium shoes and pads is sufficient for most street driven applications.

[Mikelly]

I gotta disagree there. Only because we're talking about a V8 which will, even in a mild build will most likely produce twice the torque of the original L6 motor.

 

Couple of brake options you could go with are the AZC 12.19 inch wilwood setup, the brake kits Jamie T. is putting together with his aluminum hub assemblies, the units that Ross at Modern Motorsports sells, or get with SCCA (Mike Gibson) and sweettalk him into building you a setup with the Outlaw brake components he wholesales.

 

I've had hands on every one of those brake kits listed above and they are all top shelf and you won't go wrong there.

 

As for suspension, If you're replacing the struts and going the coil over route, I'd recommend an Energy Complete master bushing kit for the car. This will truly tighten the pickup points and make the car feel much more exact in the steering and suspension feel.

 

Mike

[Nissan-Fan]

Sounds great, where do you recommend i buy suspension and bushing replacements? just looking for the best deal, due to the fact that i'm in Canada, and anything i buy for my Z comes from the U.S.