blueovalz Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 This is a fuzzy area for me as well, as some manufacturers wheels/hubs only use a smaller area surrounding the stud as the contact surface with the hub. My biggest concern on this (and I found this out when I was using washers to mock up a brake rotor upgrade) was that there are several thousanths difference in washer thickness, from the same bin, even on the better grades. I had to go through quite a few washers before finding enough of them that were within .0005 of each other so that the runout was acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhadman Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 I don't think dsommer is going to use washers... but someone else might and they might just use the search feature and, by doing so, will find multiple reasons why NOT to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 This is a fuzzy area for me as well, as some manufacturers wheels/hubs only use a smaller area surrounding the stud as the contact surface with the hub. My biggest concern on this (and I found this out when I was using washers to mock up a brake rotor upgrade) was that there are several thousanths difference in washer thickness, from the same bin, even on the better grades. I had to go through quite a few washers before finding enough of them that were within .0005 of each other so that the runout was acceptable. I also noticed this, and could find washers that were bigger than the contact of the rims to the hub. One problem I found with a "hub centric" spacer and "lug centric" wheels was that the studs were so long that when I pressed them in they were not all pointing straight up in fact I had to coax them into being perpendicular to the hub I have 1" spacers that were custom made to fit "hub centric" on the 240 front hubs (not as easy as it sounds because the hubs really radius at the bottom and aren't perfectly round either but with a very little machining on the hub and a properly made spacer I was able to press the spacer onto the hub just a very minor engagement, the back hubs do stick out from the drum by about 1/8" so I could use that interface to get hub centricity. But It made me nervous when I noticed the studs weren't all parallel or perpendicular so spacers are obviuosly a temporary solution and the proper rims are the best opition overall. I will be getting proper rims and pressing the old studs back in when I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Sounds like your studs aren't all the way in. Easiest thing to do is pull them in with a lug nut. Once they get seated they should be parallel unless something else is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Sounds like your studs aren't all the way in. Easiest thing to do is pull them in with a lug nut. Once they get seated they should be parallel unless something else is wrong. It is possible that they weren't all the way presed in but just tightening the lug nuts did not straighten them. I had to straighten them by tapping them lightly untill they were equally spaced and perpendicular, then the wheel went on and the runout was negligible. The wheel is self centering on the studs, not the other way around. Another reason to think this is just a temporary solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Well from my short experience with the Z wheels, the wheels were not hubcentric, but it did not matter. I also had one of two wandering studs, but when I tightened them down to about 70ft-lb everything went straight. Were you using concical nuts? I dont think soft taps would get the job done when 100 ft-lbs wouldnt, but then again I don't know your full situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 When I did mine I put a washer coated in anti-seize on the stud then followed that with an acorn lug nut put on backwards so that the flat face of the nut hit the washer. Then I pulled it in with an impact gun. It was easy to tell when the stud had bottomed, and they are nice and straight. I don't know how much torque it took to get them firmly set in place, but I would guess that it was more than 70 ft/lbs. You might want to either overtorque the wheels, then back them off and torque them again to 70 or whatever you use, just to make sure the studs are all the way in. My worry is that if they aren't all the way seated they might seat while you're driving and basically you wind up with a loose lug nut on some or all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I really don't get it, I wonder what really happened it desn't make sence to me either. But now I don't trust the 2 joints between the wheel and the hub instead of the 1 you would have normally, if I landed hard, I wonder if the wheel would bend the 2" long studs and make the wheel ride with a runout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 This is the whole issue I've had with any spacer. The issue is "how to ensure additional tension forces are not introduced into the studs". Ideally, a spacer should have the holes through which the studs pass as close a fit as is possible to the size of the stud. When this is done, the stud no longer can move within the confines of the spacer, thus the only tension forces imposed on the stud are those from the torqued lug nuts. In this configuration, the stud is exposed to shear forces, and not the additional tension caused by a stud being pulled sideways (and this is only if you use a lug-centric spacer). This is why I had spacers machined for my car that must be forced onto the hub due to a very, very slight interference fit on the studs themselves. With the spacer in place, there is NO movement whatsoever, even with the wheel off. In additon, the spacer has a lip to make the wheel hub-centric as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil1934 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I just used pairs of Pep Boys spacers, grinding ID of front ones about 1/32" to fit hub and using short pieces of 3/8" fuel line split to fit over the studs in the rear to keep the spacers concentric. I think everyone is overly analyzing unless you are an all out effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I just used pairs of Pep Boys spacers, grinding ID of front ones about 1/32" to fit hub... THIS IS AN EXCELLENT POINT!!! I went round and round and round trying to figure out why my wheels wouldn't balance. Turned out that the center hole in the autoparts store spacers were just BARELY too small. If you didn't pay attention (like me) you wouldn't notice that the spacer was too small. I finally figured it out when the spacer cracked. Then I got a set of billet spacers from Coleman Racing and opened the center hole up and suddenly my "wheel balance" problems magically disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I didn't read all the post but. I did need to space out my wheels before I had my CO's on and I didn't have the studs for spacers and didn't need or want 5/16" spacers. I went to ACE with my cailpers and got 10 washers and made sure they were within .001" of each other. They were .078" thick. I ran them for about a year without any problems until I got my coilovers on and took them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I actually spaced the wheels out on my Suburban with washers and absolutely no consideration to thickness, I spaced them out about 1/4" each I forget why, but I remember it took a box of washers to do it because there were 8 lugs per wheel, and I needed about 4 washers per lug. I never thought about it again till now, sold the thing in 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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