JohnnyRed Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Hello, I have a 71 240z and I'm in need of a roll bar. I would like to go with a 4pt because I don't want something that gets in the way too much. I like the Autopower Race bar so I think I'll go with that. My only problem is I'm affraid I might have seat clearance issues. I have 1995 BMW 318 seats in. There seems to be a decent ammount of room but I've never seen any pictures of this bar installed so I don't know what I have to work with. If you have pictures or could describe the clearance that would be great. This is the bar in question: http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60170&Category_Code=AP170 Info on other bars is also appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I have the Autopower 4-pt. roll bar from MSA that only has the diagonal bar - not the big horizontal. Two points: 1) The diagonal bar will keep the passenger seat from coming all the way back so will make the seat uncomfortable for tall - over 6' people. 2) I have the stock Datsun S30 seat and the backof it is tight against the vertical part of the roll bar on the driver's side when it is leaned back. I'm 6'4" and need all the space I can get. If you are shorter and either don't push the seat all the way back or don't have to lean it back a seat that's wider than the S30 seat may work ok - but then again - maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I had the SCCA legal roll bar in my white 260z. i dont think it does much good being bolted to the wheel well. Isnt much structure there. But I suppose its better then nothing. I am about 6'2" and had no problems with fitting in the car comfortably, I do sit close to the wheel though. No gangsta leans here. Funny thing to note is i could pull the seat all the way up and lean the seat back it would fit under the horizontal bar, then i could slide the seat back again. i slept in my car like this a couple times. Your seats are definitly bigger then z seats. Bit very nice i would like to see some pictures, i often thought about trying to swap in some bmw seats. they are comfy. At anyrate i seriously doubbt you will have any space issues, the 4 pt bar donesnt intrude much. i can try and find some pictures of mine but i think they are on my comp back at school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRed Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Here are some pics of the seats and clearances.....my car looks real dirty right now wow. I need to get the rest of my interior dynamated and put back in. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I personally don't think you have enough room. Those seats eat up a lot of space. I've had that particular bar and both the other non-legal bars sold by autopower. Although they are better than nothing, I'd seriously research other alternatives. A bolt in cage is minimalist. A bolt in four point bar does next to nothing to help, particularly where this style bolts in at. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 If you go to my photo album you can see how the Autopower fits with my seats. Try this link. http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=2253&cat=500&page=2 Note that it has no harness bar. It came with one but interfered with me being able to lean my seat back like I needed so I cut it out. I don't compete enough to justify more than the stock seat belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I had the SCCA legal roll bar in my white 260z. i dont think it does much good being bolted to the wheel well. Isnt much structure there. But I suppose its better then nothing. I just wanted to state that I've heard a number of people on this web site comment on how the Autopower bolt-in roll cage / bars bolt to the rear wheelhouses. The general consensus seems to be that the wheelhouses aren't a very strong attachment point. I did collision repair on unibody cars professionally for twenty five years. The wheelhouses are actually one of the strongest parts of any unibody, and the Zcar is no exeption. (so long as the structure hasn't been compromised by rust) I have never seen an Autopower roll cage / bar or owned one but am considering buying one for SCCA competition. By the way, I believe John Coffey, a member of hybridZ, is a dealer for AutoPower roll bars and could probably do you a deal on one. Here an e-maill address mailto:johnc@betamotorsports.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotfitz Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I just put one of these in my early '74 last week using '94 Eclipse seats, which are huge in comparison to the original Z seats. Judging by your pics, your seats are smaller then mine. I'm only 5'10", but I drive far back, because of my longer then usual inseam. I usually have to put the seat further back when I drive a buddies Z and he's 6'. My seat is all the way back in it's usual position and it sits right up to the seat belt cross brace. I can take high res. pics this evening at any angle. PM me and I'll send you what ever pics you want. EDIT: After a quick PM from the thread poster, I realized that this is not the bar I installed in my '74 this past week. Sorry for any problems this may have caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 True, John Sells them. However, I would be very surprised if he installed one in his personal car. I used to be a fan of these bars and had one bolted into a zcar that also had been converted to a full cage while using that four point bar as the main hoop. It did very well during a severe rear end colision from a plumbing supply truck. That said, there are much better places to sit the footers for that cage. I'd get a four point custom bar welded in it and be sure it works to your liking. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWRex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I'm having a custom cage installed,and thought I'd try to save a couple bucks welding in the pads.1st one is passenger side floor up front,second one is behind the passenger seat,boxed in,tied into the subframe connector for the main hoop.Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRed Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I didn't know the MSA did not go to the floor untill now. I think I should have plunty of room if I go with that bar. Does the MSA SCCA go to the floor? What's the differences? By the picture of the Autopower it attaches to the floor. Is this true? Does anyone have a picture where it does. You've been a lot of help so far Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I've personally owned that specific bar you have pics of above and I installed it as well. It does not go to the floor, but attaches onto the wheel well with bolts and 1/8th inch or 1/4 inch backing plates. You can see pics of that main hoop in the cage we welded into the car JT1 bought from me here: http://photos.yahoo.com/dat74z in the "my Photo Album" folder. It is the pics of the white Z with flares. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotfitz Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 ok, I'm now alittle confused. I know that Autopower makes several different roll bars for our Z cars( http://www.autopowerindustries.com/Roll_Bars.htm ). Some being generic for '70-'83. The pic in this post looks kinda like what I have, but mine looks more like Phantoms. I've personally seen Phantoms and the only difference between his and mine is I have the harness bar going from one side of the main hoop to the diagonal (like the second one on the link above): http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5326&cat=500&page=1 Looking at Mikelly's pic, it appears that he had the same one as me, but modified it to have door bars: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dat74z/detail?.dir=3b79&.dnm=eec3.JPG&.src=ph Looking at all the pics I know the Autopower drawings are generic. The footings don't appear to be correct for our application in the drawings and the proportion of the main hoop footings to the rear footings make them all look like the main hoop goes to the floor. I know I've seen one that went to the floor before. It looked just like the second one on Autopowers website(Bolt-in removable diagonal and/or horizontal brace). I was told it was an Autopower. Was I told wrong? On a side note: Mikelly's pic is very similiar to what I plan to do with mine, which is why mine is bolted in right now without looking "pretty". I will be putting bars from the inner edge of the main hoop radius, running back to the strut towers. I'll then tie those two bars together with a "strut tower brace". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 However, I would be very surprised if he installed one in his personal car. That's funny! I am just going through this debate in my head right now. For my street 1971 240Z I might install one just because I'm really busy at the shop and probably won't have time to build and weld in a roll bar. If I had the time, there would be no debate. The Autopower bolt-in roll bars and cages meet the letter of the rules and improve the safety of a 240Z that's raced on a track. They are better then not having anything in the car and are by far the cheapest way to get something in your car to go racing. I've installed four Autopower roll cages and roll bars. One, installed in a Spec944, took a big hit and then hit a concrete K-rail. The driver banged his left elbow and it bruised pretty good but that was the only injury. The Autopower bolt-in cage held up pretty well and did its job. Now, extrapolating this one result from a 1987 Porsche 944 to a 1970 Datsun 240Z is stupid. But the Autopower cages do work. Also, Hiten Patel is famous for a huge wreck he had at LVMS where he put his stroker 240Z end-over-end and then into a dirt embankment at an open track event. All he had in the car was a Cobra racing seat, Sparco harness, and an Autopower roll bar. He walked away from the wreck. All the above being said, a well designed welded in roll cage will protect the driver far better then a bolt-in Autopower cage and can significantly stiffen the chassis (allowing at least a 150 lb. in. increase in spring rates). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Now see, John you're contradicting exactly what I would have thought you'd do, constructing one to fit your exacting needs... Proves me wrong yet again! The bars aren't a bad "cheap" alternative, and I'd opt for one of those over the S&W cage placement/ fitment issues. I'm just a big fan of welded in cages now days. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 No, you're basically right, but I've become more mercenary in my thinking. Do I take a few days off work and build a roll bar in my car or do I spend $325 and 2 hours? Again, this is a street car that might see a few minutes at an autocross when I'm instructing. For the track car I'm building for myself I'll be spending a couple weeks building the "Uber" 240Z roll cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRed Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 ok, so the Autopower bolts in like the MSW. It appears by the pictures I should have no problems bolting either in. No one knows of a bar which bolts to the floor. What is the difference between the MSA SCCA and the Autopower race? Do they both have the diagonal bar (removable?)? I like the removable feature for the Autopower. Forgive me if this has been covered in a past thread I couldnt find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 ...the cheapest way to get something in your car to go racing...That's why I was considering one...All the above being said, a well designed welded in roll cage will protect the driver far better then a bolt-in Autopower cage and can significantly stiffen the chassis (allowing at least a 150 lb. in. increase in spring rates).That's what I figured, it will get the car on the track and later when I have the time and money to have a pro custom cage installed, I'll do it....For the track car I'm building for myself I'll be spending a couple weeks building the "Uber" 240Z roll cage.What? this is the first I've heard of this... and exactly what is a "Uber" 240Z roll cage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 2. Uber Term with literal meaning of "above" in German. Brought to the mainstream in the early 80's by hardcore American punk band, the Dead Kennedys when using the term in the anti-Californian government song "California Uber Alles", which is a take off the German motto of "Deustchland Uber Alles", which translates to "Germany above all." The term was picked up in their native California stomping grounds by the typical surfers and "punks" and extended from there to many teenagers, the majority of which use the term online. Its a teenager synonym for Super or Ultimate. "That was uber-lame." I plan on building the ultimate (Uber) roll cage for a standard tub 240Z. Something that is completely ridiculous and makes most people go "Wow!" and smart people go "Why?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 ... or do I spend $325 and 2 hours? John - any idea what those costs to ship ... say to central Illinois ... maybe 62521 for example? I always figured it would cost almost as much to ship as it would for the bar but if not I just may get one in the short term for all the reasons listed above. Thanks Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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