Tony D Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 DAW, when were you in the Chrysler Challenge, and what School in Michigan? Anybody know what year that Chrysler Challenge started? 1980, 1985? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 DAW' date=' when were you in the Chrysler Challenge, and what School in Michigan? Anybody know what year that Chrysler Challenge started? 1980, 1985?[/quote'] I think it's been going since the 60's or 70's. My very first girlfriend's father read about our win and caught me on the street and was telling me about how he was in the contest when he was in school. Also kinda funny, one ex-roommate of mine came in 1st in nationals in 93 and got a scholarship to UTI and another came in 3rd in Nationals in 89 or 90. My team got beat by NorCal so we didn't get to go to Washington. I believe it has been the Ford Troubleshooting Contest since the mid 90s FWIW. EDIT--According to this: http://ncsfa.state.ut.us/pubs/NCSFA%20Fall%202004.pdf it was 1949 when Plymouth put on the first troubleshooting contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 JON ...........winning at that age, you must have natural ability mechanical genes. This ability strikes in my family but passed way over me. I have a nephew that at 5 years of age could dismantle about anything by 10 years old was repairing about anything........I had to learn the hardway and could never survive doing it for a living.....I always maintain a large inventory of parts for my mechanical expertise... BUt I refuse to pay a non mechanical parts changer for what I can do myself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeiss150 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Just a word about Z car specialests... I took my 240 to a "specialest" to try to figure out how to convert from a 40 amp externally regulated altinator to a 60 amp ZX altinator. Well, he told me that it couldn't be done ... he'd been working on that convertion for years and couldn't do it with out going to a custom wireing harnes?... Now I don't consider myself an expert by any streach of the imagination... but I knew that couldn't be right... So ... I went online and what do you know! I found the SIMPLE convertion in great detail on Z garage (awesome site by the way). and the moral to this story is ... you're your own best mechanic. At least educate yourself with enough info so that you can smell the bull$hit from down the block. If a mechanic can learn how to do it ... so can you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 JON ...........winning at that age, you must have natural ability[/u'] mechanical genes. That's a nice sentiment and yeah I could take stuff apart and put it back together, but I really couldn't diagnose my way out of a wet paper bag when I got out of high school, troubleshooting contest or not. I still suck at it to be perfectly honest. Just because you're working as a mechanic doesn't mean you should be diagnosing driveability issues. As one of my friends likes to say "I dunno how to spell mokanic, but I are wun." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed260Z Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Back in the day I was a mechanic (Just long enough to rack up a $50K Snap-On bill) at a Mom & Pop place that worked on every make and model car that would come through door. The owner was good at trying to find info on the older cars that came in so that he wouldn't be talking out his A$$, but there where still situation that you still couldn't keep the customer happy. The moral of this story is that the big chain shops are not set up, or have the info, to work on these old cars. And most of their Techs are green peas that where born in the late 80's. Lucky for your the Z is a fairly easy car to work on, all you really need are a few work shop manuals, and forums like this one. The best part is you don't need to know how to work on all the other cars out there, you can "specialize" in your Z. Not to mention all the money you will save if you do most of your own work. For instence I was feeling a little lazy a few months back and after re-doing my entire suspesion I needed an allignment. I never replaced the outer tie rod ends since I didn't want to mess with that with out a machine, and I told them to do it for me. They had the balls to tell me $175 per side plus $50 for the allignment. I mean come on it's a 15 min job. ($350!!!!!!!) I said forget it and did it my self. If I had to pay a shop to do all the work I've done so far I would have spent nearly 5 times as much!!!!!!!! I would rather buy more parts for my car than pay someone who probably knows less about the car than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Lets take a few moments to think from the other side of the fence, guys... Mechanics are employees of a "shop" who gets the lion's share of the hourly rate to cover employee salaries, insurances (VERY EXPENSIVE), retail shop space, and other costs of doing business. A mechanic normally gets paid in one of two ways; an hourly rate, or the "book" rate on a job. Often times a mechanic gets a car with little "accurate" info from the customer as to the problem. If that customer is an "enthusiast" who has "attempted" to fix it him or herself, then the cost should go up exponentially. Why do you say this? Because often times when someone "thinks" they know what they are doing, and in reality doesn't, then more parts of the puzzle are impacted. I speak from first hand experience. I owned my first Zcar when I was 21 years old and barely capable of installing a CAI! I used to drive my poor uncle absolutely Nuts with my complaining about what "he" did to fix my car, when in actuality I'd get the car back from him and then pop the hood and try to "tweek" it myself. This is often where the enthusiast and the true shade tree do-it-yourselfer part ways. We're all good at certain things and bad at others. If you can't change your own clutch out, or do a brake job or tune up, you likely will never get as far as even understanding how a clutch system WORKS. That's OK, but realize that because your mechanic DOES know these things, you get to pay for his education or knowledge, his tools and time, and the shop owner's ability to allow him to work on your car. Is it crooked mechanics or inept "enthusiasts"? Now, before everyone throws a fit on me, I'm not saying that this particular example is such a case. Just understand that there are always three sides to a story. Generally the customer has one side, colored by the retail sting to the pocket, the mechanic has his side of the story, colored by his lack of ability to experience the "issue" with said problem part, coupled with the aforementioned potential "enthusiast" self help fix, and then of course what really happened and or is wrong with said poor sick Datsun Zcar. I eventually did what Savageskaterkid is suggesting and started doing all my own work in my little humble shop. It has been rewarding, but at a cost. I've spent less time doing "fun" and "healthy" activities that I enjoy and certainly has taken a toll on my relationship with my family, because I'm spending more time working my own cars and spending less time enjoying their companionship. Am I saving money? Sure. Do I always get it right? NO. Can I fire my mechanic? Sure, but then I'll be slandering my own inept ability to fix my own car, which is the true tragedy in all this fuss about crooked mechanics. Are you gonna come back here and tell all of us when you screw yourself over on a job, or get it wrong and end up costing yourself more money in the long run? It will happen, don't ask how I know... Take your car to another shop. Try to be as helpful with information and symptoms as possible. Make sure to write everything down ahead of time so you don't forget when you're rushing at the service counter. And make sure the service manager knows you've had bad experiences before. Put them on notice that you'll expect to see the bad parts being replaced afterwards and you'll want to "understand" just what service you're paying for and what part was replaced, and more importantly why. And finally, GO to your local college or highschool and enroll in their adult auto mechanics courses. LEARN while working on cars that don't weigh into your daily life. But learn, and be fair and objective. And above all else, remember to be fair and reasonable. Your money isn't all that's at stake. You gotta be able to look at yourself in the mirror. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterZ Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Wow, I's been a long weekend. I have been helping Kyle with this problem. Jmortensen, congratulations on your PT contest. I won that contest in Calif. 1978. We took second place at the National level because I missed one item on my mental checklist. We lost by 7 minutes because I had to diagnose something I had initially overlooked. Darned if J.G. Moore didn't somehow know what I'd forget to check. I have been helping Kyle with his diagnosis for a few weeks now. The basis have been covered as well as we can do without me actually being there. His carbs are wrong in my opinion and he has listened to our comments. I understand he wanted to verify the carbs were actually too lean (pulling the choke made the car run better) and to find out at what RPM so we could get to the jetting or go back to his old round top SUs. The exhaust analyzer is a very good tool for setting up carbs. I wish I had access to one again. I know very well how to set up the SU mixture ranges by shaping the needles. Even those funky later ones on the 260. Kyle, I'm still willing if you haven't burned the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed260Z Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 .............I understand he wanted to verify the carbs were actually too lean (pulling the choke made the car run better) and to find out at what RPM so we could get to the jetting or go back to his old round top SUs.......... If there is a choice I would change back to the SU's. It apparent that he is still new to Auto Mechanics, and the Webers can be a real bear (Even to the experienced guys) to work on. The only way to learn is to have some fun, and sense of accomplishment from what you did. I'm not saying that after a week or 2 reading about, and playing with, the SU's you'll be an expert. But it will be much easier to get the SU's close to the right settings. I'm not saying to get get proffesional help when you need it. And it does take me longer to do the work in my driveway than if it was done in a shop. But that can be a good thing since I take my time and make sure it's done right. (I'm not getting paid by the job) To answer the question on this thread; I would say that the answer is a big NO!!!!!! But that's not to say that the shop won't try and take advantage. As a joke I once told someone (Names will be with held to protect the innocent) that the car needed it's Flux Capasitor Relay Coil replace, and that it would run about $800, but I would see if could be done for less. And to my amazement I was asked if could be done the same day. When they came back @ 5:30 to get the car they where ready to write me the check. If I wanted to be a complete SOB-JO I could have taken their money, and they would have thanked me for it. The moral is if it doesn't sound right, or you think you heard it in a movie, do some homework and don't be taken in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kylerichardbutler Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Yeah, well I ended up paying the guy the $150 because I am a small business owner and I know what it is like. The reason I took it to him is because I have been through all the mechanical stuff and that is not the problem. I have also several times now posted my problems and no one has been able to figure it out, besides that I have been working on my own cars since I was fifteen and imagine I have a pretty good idea of what is going on. I have rebuilt three engines and replaced many head gaskets on various cars and just plain fixed a lot of cars. So my knowlage for diagnosis is fairly good. The reason I wanted the electrical test done along with his own diagnosis is for one reason and one reason only process of elimination. I just waanted to prove the line of fire was how it was sapossed to be. Now that I have checked all the mechanical about ten times and have had two other people check I am pretty sure that the mechanical side is good. And both times I took it to the shop they ended up with the information that I have already givin them. Which is the carbs are messed up. now I know they have to figure this out for them selves but I would think that once they came to realization that what I was saying wasn't totaly crap that maybe they could move on to that problem and actually fix it. But no If you want something done you just have to do it your self. So I am ordering yet another set of jets to shoot into the wind type guessing since nobody seems to no what jets are sapossed to be in the carbs for this peticular car. all I have to say is fun fun fun. I do appreciate all of your guys help in the past and I am sorry for complaining, looking back on it I would say that is pretty anoying.Thanks Kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Have you considered e-mailing redline weber and asking them for the jetting recomendations, and then getting SMALLER mains and idles. Get the recomendations for the California Emissions Legal carburettor setup, they _may_ be leaner, but I'm remembering the only difference in the kits was an anti-dieseling solenoid on the carbs for the idle circuit. many of the weber manuals carry jetting recomendations. if worse comes to worst, use a colortune to get the jetting right, if not a WBO2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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