pjo046 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Well, I was strongly considering getting some proffesionals here in Norway to put together my shortblock since I don't have access to micrometers and all that other fancy equipment you need according to the How to rebuild... book. Also, I wanted peace of mind that everything would be done correctly, and that I wouldn't mess up. Well, I checked on prices. (There are few machine-shops here in Norway, and prices are skyhigh. I knew that in advance. That's why I had Lonewolf performance do my p90 head for me because the labour is much cheaper in USA. As is the parts by the way. EVERYTHING IS EXPENSIVE IN NORWAY.... ) Anywho... I just got an answer from the machineshop. They said they would use a full day to assemble the shortblock for me(Unless something wasn't as it should be and they had to fix that, then it would take longer and cost more), and they would charge me 555NOK (Aproximately 85$) an hour + VAT(which is 25%, which means an additional 21$) + any possible workshopmaterial(Lubrication, grease, etc) I mean, a full day means what 8 hours? That means 106$ x 8 = 848$, plus say 50$ of workshopmaterial. That nets a total of 900$ just to assemble the shortblock..... By the way, this was only assembly, not resurfacing the block or getting the sylinderwalls honed, I have another person who can do this for me cheaper. Unfortunately he hasn't got much experience with these engines, nothing at all actually. Otherwise I would have asked him to do the assembly. As for tuning the TEC3 system I have, if I did the rough-tuneup myself so that the engine is running smooth etc when I hand the car to them, they reckoned it would take about a day for them to tune it properly(UNLESS SOMETHING WENT A BIT WRONG, then it would take longer time and cost more etc). Actually, his exact words was that: "we get time to do a lot in one day". In my head that means that they will be able to do a lot of the tuning in one day, but it will probably take a bit longer than one day to complete the tuning. And he further said that if something should not go as planned, the hours fly by quickly. (So then it would perhaps take two full days to tune it?) For the tuning on the dyno, they charge 750NOK(115$) + VAT(30$) per hour, + any possible workshopmaterial. (What would that be, electricity for the dyno? Haha) So if everything goes as planned, and they work fast and only use one day on the tuning, that's gonna cost me 1160$..... I can always check around more, but that is about the price level I guess, unless I get in touch with someone who knows someone etc. And here in the town I live in(Which is the second largest in Norway) there is only two dyno's. This one I am talking about, and another which is equally expensive. Therefore I am thinking of doing the whole thing myself. How hard is it to assemble the engine really? I have never done this before, although I have done pretty much everything else to a car. I have rebuilt two turbos before, I have swapped a timing-belt on my Opel Vectra etc. Is it really necessary to use micrometers etc to measure each and every part of the engine up and down? I am not going for an engine that can withstand like 8500rpm and trying to get 600rwhp, my goal is 400rwhp and I will set the rpm-limit at 7000rpm just to be safe. And how hard is it to tune the electromotive TEC3 system once you get a bit familiar to it? The more info and advice you guys can give me, the better. I really don't want to spend over 2000$ on this(if everything goes smooth and fast, if not it could end up at 3000$ or more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeiss150 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Good news! You can rebuild it yourself. If you've rebuilt a turbo or two and changed out a timing belt you should be able to do an L28 turbo build no problem. I rebuilt my L28 without picking up a mic. just get the block "hot tanked" or the Norway equivilant, then get it bored .20 thousands over, get it honed, and your almost done. Stuff you'll need to buy... .20 thou over pistons and rings (flat top or dished depending on the CR you want) rod bearings crank bearings rear main seal piston ring compressor ($10 tool for putting pistons into cylinder with rings on) assembly lube If you wanna get crazy you can buy new rod bolts (I didn't) timing set that should be all of the parts you'll need If you wanna do it right I would get the flywheel resurfaced and then I would get the crank, rods, flywheel, pistons, rings, front pully, all ballenced (thats what I did) Then just follow your "how to rebuild your datsun nissan L engine" book except for the stuff with a mic and feeler gauges. and pow! you'll have a "professional" short block for a lot cheaper than what you would pay them for it. Good luck and let us know how it turns out Matt- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed260Z Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Good news! You can rebuild it yourself. Matt- I would add some plasti and feeler gauges to that list. But $900 is not that bad to rebuild a short block. What they can do in 1 day will take you at least 5. The best you can hope for with out all the specialized gauges is a good rebuild. They should be able to blueprint the block for you, which will let the engine spin easier, and give you "free" power. If you want to do it right see if you can get someone to let you borrow the tools, and then take your time. There is an old addage that says "messure twice, and cut once". The same is true here, but change to messure 4 or 5 time, and torque it down once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kustom240 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I agree. Over here at least, a big set of the feeler gauges sell for $10 and are quite necessary (what else are you going to use to set up the valves?) Just my .02c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 For 900 clams , you could by quite a few tool's and do it yourself. A caliper,feeler gauge and plasti-gauge and of coure a torque wrench,are all your going to need. Sure it'll take you longer, but you'll have the satisfaction that you did it yourself. Go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I personally look at things like this and think to myself that "All it takes is time or money." Sometimes it's a little of both. Like in this situation you could have the machine work done at the shop (money) and then learn and reassemble the block yourself (time). Sure it's gonna take you longer then the shop guys to do it but, it's kinda fun and you'll learn a tons of things. Also after it turns out great it's kinda neat to tell people you assembled the bottom end and did it all yourself. That is with some help from the HybridZ crew. It's really not that hard and like the guys said before your going to need some special tools but in the long run you'll save alot of money and enjoy the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjo046 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thanks for all the replies! zeiss150: I already have gathered all the parts I need: - Forged JE pistons (Not .20thou over as the block was in perfect condition with only 50k miles on it, all it will need is a little honing to remove the glazing) which are almost flattop, yielding me a CR of 8.5:1 (When used together with the 1mm HKS gasket I have bought) - ARP main studs, ARP rod bolts, ARP head studs, Clevite 77 main bearings, Clevite 77 rod bearings - I have a crank scraper bought of ebay - I have bought a new timing chain kit with a new front seal, new rear main and side seals - Fidanza aluminium flywheel (Need new bolts to install it, where can I get this?) - New single groove pulley Since the engine only has 50k original miles on it, do you think it will be necessary to have the rotating assembly balanced? Ed260Z: 900$ would be for just assembling the parts. The rotating assembly wouldn't be balanced for that price, only thing they would do is assemble everything to spec values. I find that horribly expensive. Furhtermore I sent them a new e-mail yesterday to clear up what was involved etc. It was in that reply they said that the 1 day timeframe only included the assembling. And they would take no responsibility should they ruin the engine, or blow it up when tuning it. The only way they would give me a guarantee against that, was if they themself built the whole engine, and bought in all the parts themselves. Basically, I would have to order a complete performance motor from them for them to give me a guarantee against blowing it up on the dyno. Had I bought such an engine from them, the total price would probably have been somewhere around 20 000$. fastzcars: I already have feeler gauges and a torque wrench. Well, my father has that is... Where can I get plasti-gauge? What is a caliper? (Assuming we're not talking brakes here. ) I know I can do most of the installation myself. The only step I am worried about is installing the crank correctly. I have both the How to rebuild your.. and How to modify your... books. The information from both those books abouth that subject is so detailed and confusing that it scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 My youngest stepson is going through this right now with his turbo civic that lost compression in a cylinder. Here's what you need to ask yourself... Is it a daily driver or a car you don't need to rely on. If it is your main mode of transportation, PAY the man and get it done right. Otherwise, take your time, buy the right books, the right tools, and enlist the right help locally to teach you how to do it. If there is no stress to "get it done", you'll be MUCH more successful in the long haul. Oh, and DO NOT scrimp on the machine shop... Let them hot tank and check the block for cracks. Let them do a check of your head to make sure it is true and straight. Let them do seat pressure tests on your valve seats, and have them check the guides. Go ahead and have them hone the block with the proper PLATE. If you have the extra money, you might even want to get them to balance the assembly... But i'd NOT scrimp on the machine shop. That is the devil in the detail that will kill an otherwise good L6 build. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjo046 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 The head is already done. It has been professionally worked by Lonewolf performance. It has new valves, new valve seats, new guides, a three angle valve job, porting, polishing, a new upgraded turbocam, reground rocker arms, new harder springs etc. And it has been resurfaced. The block I will have resurfaced and honed at a machine shop nearby that is cheaper. If he has equipment to hot tank the block, I'll pay him to do that as well. Is it just me who finds the prices I mentioned outragously expensive? How much do the dyno shops in the US charge per hour on average? And what about the machine shops? So, any recommendations on where to get the plasti-gauge etc? And perhaps some micrometers if they aren't too expensive? This is not going to be an everyday transporter, but a summer-season cruise car that I will also attend some track days with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 So, any recommendations on where to get the plasti-gauge etc? You should be able to get these at any local parts store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Most shops I've heard of are doing $75-90 per hour for tuning, depending on the type of tune. However, I've paid $300 for LS1 Edit initial tuning with free minor tweeks and full on reconfigurations for $150 with 2.5 hours on the rollers. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 And people complain about US Labor costs and Taxes! LOL Such is the toll for living in the Social-Net Utopia I suppose... That aside, what are the costs involved in hipping tools into Norway? A digital caliper (even from the dreaded Harbor Freight) isn't that bad, and if you can follow the instructions in the "How To" book you can/will save a lot of money and learn a lot in the process. I digress to agree with Mike in that if you need the transportation, then you may have no choice but to pay for it, but having even rudimentary tools to check their work and recheck clearances will add peace of mind. Digital Indicators from HF and Digital Calipers are one-button convertable to Metric, so you can use local specifications and convert quickly to compare to the English units in the "How To" book. There really is no reason you can't assemble the engine yourself after the machine work is done. Gene Berg (VW's) was big on his customer's assembling his components, and it was like pulling teeth to get him to do a complete engine. His logic was that informed customers who know how it went together will be less likely to complain or ask niggling questions about this or that becasue they did it themselves, and in the process answer those types of questions. With a dial indicator, digital caliper, magnetic base, and maybe a Mic you will have most all of what you will need to do engine setup and assembly, and the cost for tools will be less than $100, plus shipping and whatever customs charges you have coming into country. If needed, I can ship to you because I doubt HF ships overseas (http://www.harborfreight.com). Once you have the basic stuff, you find all sorts of things to use them on! As for dyno tuning, anywhere form half a day to a day at $150 an hour if the shop is doing all the tuning. Can be half that if you are doing the tuning, and they are just supplying the wideband, dyno, and operator. Good Luck on the project. Come to think of it, Harbor Freight is still open, I'm going to check out that digital indicator...bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violacleff Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Mikelly, is this some kind of buddy deal? Every dyno shop I've called charges $150-250 an hour + $85 hookup fee. I would dyno tomorrow if I could get it done for $90hr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.bryant Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm in the exact same position at the moment accept I havnt worried about doing anything to the block...Altho now that I think about it I should've done the rings, but I dont know exactly how and the motor is still in my vehicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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