Frame Rail Repair

[Okimoto]

Jesus Christ' date=' I can't believe it was only 5 years ago that I wrote that. I guess I've come a long way since then.

 

Honestly in the end I ended up parting out the car and finding a rust free shell to deal with. Best move I ever made on that project, and I'm still driving the car today for that reason. Knowing what I know now (and having done this repair to other Z's 3 or 4 times now) it is rarely worth the trouble unless the Z is exceptional otherwise.

 

There is no way you want to tackle this job with a stick welder, you need MIG and we're not talking flux cored here. Even then if you don't know what you are doing you're better off finding someone that does to help you out.

 

This job is in the area of 30 hours work to do correctly, both sides. This includes removing the engine, (trust me, you could do it around the engine but it will take twice as long) front suspension, and aligning the car perfectly on a jig. The actual fabrication portion is probably about 10 hours for both sides. Throw in finishing, paint and reinstall and it can add up fast.

 

Another thing I've done that worked out well was to graft a complete front end onto a damaged car from the firewall forward. There are caveats for sure, but it can work very nicely as you put the seam in a spot where it is hard to see.

 

Anyway, not recommended unless you have a) the right tools, boatloads of time, and c) someone knowledgeable that can show you the way.[/quote']

 

 

im at work right now, but when I get home, I'll post some pictures. I saw a harbor freight wirefeed for 100 bucks. If you say I need that, I'll go and find one. I'm working in chino, and harbor freight isnt too far from here.

 

Basically I took another look at it and the rail is just as thin as you guys said. I guess I was in denial. Also the rail is crunched in right above the compression bracket. The part where the frame rail attaches to the body seems to be in bad shape too.

 

I have an extra bedframe at home that looks stronger than this frame rail, unfortunately.

 

edit: heres the welder:

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=55167

[JMortensen]

You might want to search for "welder" and see what comes up. It's been discussed a lot, and the basic jist is you get what you pay for. Harbor Freight carries some Hobart welders that are pretty good but don't have the infinite voltage control. The Hobart is the cheapest welder I would buy.

[Okimoto]

I just remembered something! I just remembered I have a suitcase sized lincoln wirefeed module... that might somehow hook onto the arc welder. it has a giant spool of wire inside. Has anyone ever heard of doing such a thing?

 

 

Ok, I just uploaded the photographs. All pictures are in my gallery. I have a few more of the rust in the trunk and a few others that I didn't bother to upload.

http://album.hybridz.org/showgallery.php?ppuser=8116&cat=500

 

 

This is me under the car looking at the damaged area. It's obscured by the brake line in this picture. However, you can see the general condition of the frame rail.

 

with this picture, you can see the crack running parallel to the brake hardline.

You can also see the welding done on the other component. the compression bracket should probably be re-welded to the frame rail.

 

 

Here we have a picture of the frame rail to unibody, I believe. I'm guessing the shop that did it before didn't bother to re-route the hardline thru the new grommet.

 

 

Picture from the top. You can see the frame rail that seems to bulge at this point...

 

 

 

 

From these pictures in my gallery, I kindly and humbly ask for your honest opinions.

Thank you for your time and I hope to be hearing from you soon.

[hat1324]

i would not buy a cheap welder, i have a nice mig and I love it..

[BWRex]

Ouch! Got to stop doing dounuts in the parking lot!I'm currently replacing sections of floorboards,firewall,basically all the thin stuff,and the mig is the only way to go.Practice,practice,practice!Also,you might want to search "subframe connectors" a few guys have some decent writeups and pics replacing the whole frame rail.Good luck!

[hat1324]

i did woot! my frame rails connect the rear subframe through the floorboard, then welded 2 pairs of sheet metal for the floor..

[AK-Z]

For the welder. I recommend the lincoln SP135 plus. The transformer is copper (waht quality welder have) as opposed to aluminum (won't last, but will work), and is it can use gas (gas wire feed). Its like $500-600 depending where you look, but it will last you a lifetime.

 

If you want to get something cheaper, you can look for the SP125 version used. They just have 10volt difference in output.

 

Duty cycle in welders is the ammount of time that someone can run a conitueous bead and also the amount of time between beads that the weld should perform at.

[ezzzzzzz]

You cannot weld sheetmetal with stick unless it is backed up with stainless or copper to prevent burn-through. It isn't worth even two seconds to try this. MIG and TIG rule in this arena....period. As for welders, The cheap offbrands are TOTAL CRAP for any use. Their performance is INFERIOR at best and consumables are nearly always hard to acquire. You will feel absolute frustration and incompetent when actually 90% of the problem is the equipment's fault. Fluxcore is intended for outdoor use in windy conditions where bottled gas flow can be disrupted. I use a Millermatic 175amp 220v unit. I wanted bigger but like the smaller gun for tight work. I ran a used Miller Cricket 70amp 110v for 10 years before it finally burned up from abuse and age. The Lincoln's are nice too but I prefer the metal pinch roller assembly of Miller over Lincoln's plastic. ESAB and Holbart are quality as well. You cannot go wrong with this investment and a good regulator/bottle set. Even a newbie can weld decent with good equipment and steady hand. The "made in China" crap should remain overseas. I know this thread got off on a different tangent because of the crossover subject. It's important to spend your money wisely on the equipment that really counts! That's why I felt the need to emphasize on it to Okimoto and any others with similar questions.

[AK-Z]

So if you're going to get a welder, stick with the name brands.

 

Miller

ESAB

Lincoln

Holbart (Company was bought out by one of the the other 3 I believe)

 

Usually if its not upgradeable to gas then its not worth getting. Interestingly enought, I saw a caftsman welder at Sears that is upgradeable to gas. Don't know of the quality, but I think I'll pass on that one.

 

Make sure that if you get one and you are doing the work at home or are going to be doing work with it in different loacations, that you get a "single phase" welder, if you have a shop in an industrial area then you might be able to get away with 3 phase. 3 phase is better, but most people don't have 3 phase power lines goin to there homes'. Another thing, Don't use some "costco/walmart" brand extension cords. The quality of the wire in the extension cords count, especially anything around 50 feet. If you use those cords from costco I will garentee the that you are going to have problems when you are trying to lay a strutureal bead (not spot welds). The welder won't have enough power for it to be able to lay a consistant bead (stop and go action) because the cord has to high of Ohmz ressitance. So I say just go to the Industrial hardware store and tell them what you are doing and they will give you what you need or if you know what you are doing somewhat, then you can go and make you own cords.

[HB280ZT]

Hi All,

 

Hobart was bought by Miller and my Hobart 175 has parts on it that says Miller. It was a good deal and has worked just great over the last several years.

 

As for the frame rails who has used these:

 

http://www.baddogparts.com/

 

I was looking at using there frame rail covers to fix the problem that I have with damaged frame rails.

 

HB280ZT

[Nismo280zEd]

I haven't used them , but that's what I planned on making, a set of rails to weld over the old ones, but also extend them.

-Ed

[Okimoto]

Ok, I found the lincoln wirefeed in the garage and took some pictures for you guys to analyze the suitability of this device for frame welding.

 

 

 

 

On the back it says "To prevent possible damage to LN-25 with internalk contactor, Do Not Connect to non-Lincoln TIG or Square WAve Power Sources."

 

The back of the unit has some sort of gas connector, a purge button and a giant wire coming out of it.

 

The front of the unit has a weird connector on it, a connector looking like you hook the wirefeed gun to, and a bunch of doo-dads to control the unit.

 

 

Because of the sticker on the back of the unit, I'm not too sure if this can hook to my arc welder. It does say "Arc welder" on the side of the unit, but i cant know for certain that this thing is compatible... let alone what all the other connectors are for.

 

Its a lincoln LN-25 if the model number helps any. If I went to home depot and got a buzz box, could I hook that up to this? I have some CO2 cylinders in the back of my garage too. (I think it's for the keg machine and beer taps though.)

 

Basically, my question is: Is this suitable for frame welding? And also is this thing compatible with a century infinitely adjustable arc welder? And What the heck is this thing?

[dj paul]

http://photobucket.com/albums/a172/djpaul8/?action=options this is what im doing to mine. i cut out half the frame rail and am doing the same on the other side. just keep at least one in at a time so you can fit the suspension perfectly back on and level it when its bolted up, or else your going to get goofy steering and or sagging and it just wont handle the same.

[Okimoto]

I just saw the pictures you posted. And I think it might be out of my scope of ability to do something like that without altering the suspension in a negative way.

 

I'm going to have to think about this one. On one hand, I want to keep the car, but on the other hand I want to keep my sanity, life, etc...

[AK-Z]

[url=http://photobucket.com/albums/a172/djpaul8/?action=options]http://photobucket.com/albums/a172/djpaul8/?action=options[/url'] this is what im doing to mine. i cut out half the frame rail and am doing the same on the other side. just keep at least one in at a time so you can fit the suspension perfectly back on and level it when its bolted up, or else your going to get goofy steering and or sagging and it just wont handle the same.

 

At least yours are in better condition then how mine are. Everything looks clean, I need to blast mine and see what I have to do from there.

[Okimoto]

You cannot weld sheetmetal with stick unless it is backed up with stainless or copper to prevent burn-through. It isn't worth even two seconds to try this.

 

 

you are absolutely right. I tried to weld my creeper using the arc welder... and ended up with gaping holes where I thought I would have filler material. However, the creeper is quite strong on one of the four welds. the other three cracked.

[tube80z]

Its a lincoln LN-25 if the model number helps any. If I went to home depot and got a buzz box' date=' could I hook that up to this? I have some CO2 cylinders in the back of my garage too. (I think it's for the keg machine and beer taps though.)

 

Basically, my question is: Is this suitable for frame welding? And also is this thing compatible with a century infinitely adjustable arc welder? And What the heck is this thing?[/quote']

 

This is a wirefeed unit, not a welder. You need a constant voltage power source to hook to this to complete the picture. A buzzbox is not a constant voltage source. This is good quality industrial equipment.

 

Cary

[COZY Z COLE]

Hi All' date='

 

 

As for the frame rails who has used these:

 

http://www.baddogparts.com/

 

I was looking at using there frame rail covers to fix the problem that I have with damaged frame rails.

 

HB280ZT[/quote']

 

 

I just used their rails as part of my R-230 conversion upgrade.....

 

LARRY

[Dragonfly]

Go to your favorite bookstore and look for the book "Weldors Handbok" it is written with the intention of helping people to understand each of the different types of welding, prep etc. It is the best book I have seen for teaching welding short of taking classes.

 

As far as the damage on your frame I personaly would move everything out of the way and have someone who is a professional weldor weld in supports on the frame to box it in and create some extra strength.

 

Dragonfly

[Idnevno]

I just opened up my own shop out here in Sterling Va. Me and my friend used to work at Datsun Dynamics i worked there for 8 years my buddy 3. We are doing all sorts of work to all types of cars including frame rail and rust repair. If you all need references i have many you can talk to. Give us a shout sometime or feel free to e-mail us.

 

-Dave

http://www.CreationZ.biz