MIBPreacher Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Can normal cars burn this or do you have to have a special vehicle to burn it? I saw a station selling it locally and it was 25 cents cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 google are your friend http://www.ethanol.org/e85.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 That site was pretty vague. I watched a program on the History Channel about how Brazil already has straight ethanol at all of their gas stations, which they produce from their sugar crops. It's half the price of unleaded there. Anyways, they said that the flex-fuel ecu's use O2 sensors to determine the percentage of ethanol and gas, and adjust fuel and timing settings in real time. I don't see why a Z with Megasquirt or any other aftermarket efi couldn't also be adjusted to run properly on E85. As long as it was run solely on E85 or unleaded and not on in-between mixtures of the two, a separate map could be created for each. Does anyone know what kind of octane #'s E85 has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zNHChris Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I have a 99 Ford Ranger 4x4 with a 3.0 litre flexible fuel vehicle. It would run fine. Alot of taurus' have that motor also. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 You can't run ethanol in a vehicle that was not designed for it! Don't try it. Do you remember gasohol in the 70's??? One problem is that the ethanol does not have the petroleum base of gasoline. The rubber seals, O-rings and paper gaskets dried out in the 70's. This caused all sorts of problems. The new ethanol E85 contains a lubricant. The new vehicles are designed with different rubber and plastics and gaskets so they don't dry out. E85 is 85% ethanol. Most of the new ford vehicles are designed to use E85. E85 does burn cooler so in theory, you may be able to turn up the boost which is a good thing, but in an L28, you are going to have serious problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 You can't run ethanol in a vehicle that was not designed for it! Don't try it. Do you remember gasohol in the 70's??? One problem is that the ethanol does not have the petroleum base of gasoline. The rubber seals' date=' O-rings and paper gaskets dried out in the 70's. This caused all sorts of problems. The new ethanol E85 contains a lubricant. The new vehicles are designed with different rubber and plastics and gaskets so they don't dry out. E85 is 85% ethanol. Most of the new ford vehicles are designed to use E85. E85 does burn cooler so in theory, you may be able to turn up the boost which is a good thing, but in an L28, you are going to have serious problems.[/quote'] I did not know that, and wasn't around for the 70's. I have to ask though, if E85 contains a lubricant, does that not alleviate the gasket issues? Also, in an L28, the only gasket or seal it would affect would be the head gasket unless I'm missing something. Could you shed some more light on why it would cause problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 A bill was passed recently that the gas sold in th US would have to be (I think it was 15%) ethanol. I don't know by when though. I know some stations have been selling it for a while now. I think that it would be bad for us because it changes the air/fuel ratio needed to have the ideal ratio (it tends to make cars a little leaner with the same ratio as "normal gas"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 A stoich AFR for E85 is around 9.7:1, versus 14.x:1 for gasoline. This could easily be compensated for with the use of aftermarket EFI. What I worry about is would the E85 dissolve my gas tank or its seals? What about damage to fuel lines and exposed aluminum cylinder walls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Ethanol reacts slowly with oxygen in air to form acetic acid. Although that is the content of vinegar, strong acetic acid is pretty corrosive; pure acetic acid can even dissolve body tissue and polymers. Maybe that's why you need a special vehicle(FFV) to run the special gas. However, I suppose they added reagents in the ethanol fuel to surpress oxidation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 That site was pretty vague. Well the whole point is a 10 second google search will yield you more information than you could possibly absorb. No, you cannot run E85 in a vehicle that wasn't specifically designed for it. Go back and read a few posts about what it takes to run a straight alcohol motor and what kind of HP you can get from something like that. BTW, the only reason E85 or even 15% gasohol is cheaper than regular unleaded is the government subsidies. People want to hold that stuff up as some kind of cure for our energy problems. I suppose it may have it's place, especially for small scale biomass solutions, but IMO it has just been so much government pork up to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zNHChris Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 It's also 85 octane so it will be to low for a Z. On my ford you are supposed to run only regular for gas 87, if you run 93 it will run worse because ford programmed the computer and calibrated it for 85 ethanol and 87 regular. Saves me .20$ a gallon tho!!! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
331CI 280z Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Actually Chris, the 85 stands for the percentage of ethanol. I believe that it is around 100 octane so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 What about damage to fuel lines and exposed aluminum cylinder walls? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 This is a relevant topic as we all will eventually have to face changing fuels in our Zs .25 cents cheaper and it will cost you more to drive the same distance. Since the afrs are less for ethanol, you'll see worse mpgs. They should discount the price for that reason alone. Colorado has had the 10% for years, and in the past, mandated during winter months. I pumped 30 gallons every 6 days into my work truck. The 10% alone resulted in 2-3 fewer mpg. You also don't hear about the problem with more NOx emissions, greenhouse gasses. In my mind, if it contains more oxygen, your non flex fuel designed car's system will detect it and not run leaner, only burn more to keep the ratios correct. In antiquated carbureted non computer car, yeah, but those with a screwdriver will take care of that with jetting. Not a good selling point. How many cars are carbureted? IMO Its all a lot of hot air. I'm all for less foriegn dependency, but wish they'd state all the facts. We just got the OK for another ethanol plant near us. I know its not methanol, but Maybe Dr Hunt can teach us all how to put it to good use John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Well the whole point is a 10 second google search will yield you more information than you could possibly absorb. Thanks for the tip... notice that in my next post I stated the stoich afr of e85. I had already run my own search and found a much more informative site than the one originally linked. I was not aware however, that running straight alcohol involved the same requirements as running e85. What? In my reading I found that ethanol, especially when contaminated with more than 1% water, will separate out from the gasoline and form a compound that is corrosive to aluminum and magnesium. Same thing for older gas tanks with a certain tin content as well as rubber fuel lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Actually Chris, the 85 stands for the percentage of ethanol. I believe that it is around 100 octane so Yes, the octane rating is probably around 100 not 85. The E85 actually has a higher octane rating and burns cooler. A "Casey's" gas station in my area has been selling Super Unleaded for the same price as regular unleaded for quite some time. I used to fill up my 1991 Chevy truck with "Super Unleaded" there until it started to run bad. It took several weeks to notice a problem. I later was told that the reason the Super was the same price as the regular was that the Super contained methanol (probably ethanol) which resulted in a higher octane rating. My 1991 Chevy truck would run on it. It just wouldn't continue to run without problems from the gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 The site I was reading said e85 is 110 octane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 The site I was reading said e85 is 110 octane. If it burns, how high could I crank my boost on my SR20DET? 2.0-2.5 bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boodlefoof Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Yeah, ethanol is higher octane. Problem I've heard with respect to just popping it in your gas tank is the corrosion issue. It eats up rubber lines and such more quickly. Not sure if the E-85 they're selling now alleviates this problem somehow. Another thing to consider is that ethanol will not give you the same mileage per gallon as gasoline. I recall reading a few years back that it will give you about 70-80% the mileage of gas... so a 30mpg gasoline-engined car will be turning 24 on ethanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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