JustinOlson Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 Alright, well I have a rough model in Solidworks of the flange. Sorry for taking forever and a day to actually do this. I made some slight alterations. I'm working on different ideas at this point. I used 1.759" ID tubing for the model. I'm going to finish up the plenum later today. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4367&step=4&showunits=inches Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 I also had this idea for the top bolt holes. Let me know what you guys think. I'm not a machinist, so I'm not sure which design is more efficient (cheaper) to machine. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 Here is a close up of the alterations I made to the flange from Ron's Design. I added slight cutouts(0.050") to center the runners to the flange. Also, I added material to make the runners easier to weld up. Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 21, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 21, 2007 Looking good Justin. I have a couple comments, if I may... I added slight cutouts(0.050") to center the runners to the flange. Also, I added material to make the runners easier to weld up. I wouldn't (and didn't) do that. Considering the weight of the plenum, over the years, the pounding could work at the welds. None of my welds at the tubes carry any weight. I ran my tubes the full 1" depth (into the flange), beveled them, and welded them on the mating surface (fly cut afterwards). This way the flange carries the weight and the welds only 'keep it together'. In other words, at the time of this picture, there wasn't a single weld, but you could stand on the outboard flange... I also had this idea for the top bolt holes. Let me know what you guys think. I'm not a machinist, so I'm not sure which design is more efficient (cheaper) to machine. The above picture is what my original drawings reflected (regarding the bolt bosses). While it is more attractive, I feel that method would allow more deformity to develop in the gasket. I'm of the opinion you'll get a more consistent seal with your original, 'flush' bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted May 21, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 21, 2007 Something I noticed as well. Rons manifold port diameter is 1.5â€, which is a nice increase in cross sectional area over OE, thus requiring port matching. Being as Ron also biased his ports upward, effectively creating a larger centerline radius in the port, (the floor of the manifold port lines up with floor of the port in the head), all material that is removed from the head when port matching is taken from the roof of the port. A port diameter of 1.75†is great for super high strung L-series engines, but getting the ports in the cylinder head to that size is going to require sonic testing of the port walls themselves during the porting process, especially if the port is biased “upward†like Ron did. There will be an issue of hitting the water jacket when port matching out to 1.75â€. Here is how the 1.5†port lines up to the head currently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 Ok, I did a bit more work: Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 A cheap source for the aluminum bends. I haven't been able to find thicker then 16 gauge aluminum tubing with a 4.5" CLR. http://www.globaltecheng.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=65&idproduct=1145 http://www.globaltecheng.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=65&idproduct=597 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 I still need to properly place the injector ports. I'm thinking I might actually have the runners machined for injector ports. Then weld in some injector ports that are machined up on a lathe. This would allow a smaller angle between the injectors and the runner, which should promote better atomization. I'll work on that idea a bit more tomorrow. Couple More Pictures: Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Justin, I'm watching your progress with special interest. I'm just in the middle of converting from triple webers to megasquirt using a stock FI manifold. It pains me to put the stock manifold on as I can see how much smaller the runners are than what I'm taking off. I'm really hoping I'm not going to loose too much top end. I keep seeing plenty of others with similar NA setups to mine getting good power (~175 rwhp) using the stock manifold, so hoping I'll see the same. But deep down inside, I have a feeling I'll be looking for a better intake by next summer. Perhaps you'll have a solution for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Justin, I'll take one when you're ready! I'd like to discuss it further with you. Would you mind calling me at 321-454-4971? my email address is also ken280z@gmail.com I'd like to discuss 2 other manifolds one for my superchargerd L-Series and another for a vk56 Nissan Titan V8 motor. Regards Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 Well, one thing at a time for me. I'm going to get this design finalized then I can move on to others. I'm at work right now and am not suppose to be on here, so I'll post some updates tonight when I get off work. Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Justin, Sounds good... I'd like one of the current manifolds you're making for my turbo motor The other manifolds that I mentioned are things I'd like to discuss as something later on... There's probably a fair amount of demand for a replacement manifold for the VK56DE... the current design was done to maximize torque and the runners are 22 inches long! The height of the stock VK56 manifold is also an issue and could easily be re-designed so it could be used in more applications (like a 240Z and others like a Pathfinder etc) Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 If you could send me a VK56 stock manifold I could design a race geared replacement. My mailing address is: Justin Olson 18901 Hilltop Rd Lake Oswego, OR 97034 Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab0z Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 I am also interested in this manifold in the near future, I am planning a moderate NA build and was contemplating ITBs, but this looks like most of the benefits at a (hopefully) lower cost. Anyways, I just want to encourage you in your development, we all appreciate the hard work you are putting in on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 24, 2007 Author Share Posted May 24, 2007 Played with the model a bit on my lunch break. I need to change the angle of the injector ports, but I like how this design looks. I'm going to have to talk to the machinist to see if he can make the runners and injector ports so I can easily weld it up. Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Justin, Hey... I thought I saw somewhere in this post where you needed the tooling for doing the injector ports... Ross Machine Racing has a lot of cool stuff including some pre-made velocity stacks... the link to the injector bit is here: http://rossmachineracing.com/injectortool11mm.html they also have a 14mm size as well... Also, please give me a call when you have a minute Ken 321-454-4971 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 24, 2007 Author Share Posted May 24, 2007 Thanks for the link. I have some of those ross machining injector bungs. The machinist I use can produce those for me. The major hurdle will be machining the injector ports to lay on top of the runners like the above pictures. I'm going to give the machinist a call tomorrow about this. I'll give you a call tomorrow as I'm very busy with work today. Best Regards, Justin Olson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted May 25, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 25, 2007 Played with the model a bit on my lunch break. I need to change the angle of the injector ports, but I like how this design looks. I'm going to have to talk to the machinist to see if he can make the runners and injector ports so I can easily weld it up. Regards, Justin Justin, Your solids works looks pretty good thus far. The angle of the OE injector port is 54 degree off the head/manifold mounting flange, (see pic below). The injector is aligned directly with the intake valve which is offset in the opening of the port itself, (port is cast off center from the intake valve). Also, you will want to keep the length of the injector bosses short so the fuel is able to spray into the port and not against the interior walls of the injector boss. I used to individually bore the injector ports in the fuel rails and manifolds for O-ring style injectors with a boring bore, (several step operation). Talk about time consuming. We recently purchased the 14mm injector cutting tool pictured below and it sped up that process considerably with comparable quality. For what it’s worth, Nissan placed and angled the injectors such that they spray directly at the back side of the intake valve when it is on the seat. The picture below is through an OE injector boss looking at the base of an intake valve with the OE manifold bolted to an N-42 head with an intake valve just off its seat to allow a little light in for the picture. You know, I still have that intake manifold for you to use for reference. I might even be persuaded to let you use a bare head with an intake valve as well if that helps?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 The height of the stock VK56 manifold is also an issue and could easily be re-designed so it could be used in more applications (like a 240Z ...) Yes, yes it could.... Maybe a dual plenum lowrise crossram design using Z32 T/B's... LOL Where have I heard that before, Ken? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 I worked on the injector bungs a bit. The idea is to making fuel rail standoffs built into the plenum base. I'll work on the fuel rail and mounting tabs later today. Paul do you think the gain in atomization by moving the injectors back on the runner will be worth while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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