JustinOlson Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Just a quick rendering. I'm actually going to use a different fuel rail stock, but this gives an idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbesheer Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 So you guys are going to be making fuel rails that go with it too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_racer1999 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 this is a great thread. keep up with the good work justin! i must subscribe to this thread for when i convert to EFI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 26, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 26, 2007 So you guys are going to be making fuel rails that go with it too ? I think its fair to say as many fuel rails will be available as there are manifolds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 26, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 26, 2007 Paul do you think the gain in atomization by moving the injectors back on the runner will be worth while? My feeling is that you'd have to move them farther than you have to make it worth while, say inside the plenum, directed straight down the runners throat. Anything less than that isn't worth the extra expense and complication (don't forget the mounts for the rail). IMO, flange mounted injectors are an elegant overall compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 26, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 26, 2007 i love the intake design.. how can i get one for my 76 n42head??? At this time, the key word is... patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 If you could send me a VK56 stock manifold I could design a race geared replacement. My mailing address is: Justin Olson 18901 Hilltop Rd Lake Oswego, OR 97034 Regards, Justin Justin, I do have a VK56DE manifold that I'd be happy to send to you. There are a few challenges to work around which we'll have to discuss during the design phase, but they are all things that we can work through. Should I wait until you've finished your current L-Series manifold project or send it now? Let's talk soon. I think you may have tried to call yesterday... I missed a few calls because I was out with my daughter. Talk to you soon Ken 321-454-4971 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_racer1999 Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 since you're still designing, why not add a second set of injectors? like sequential.... one for better atomization one for direct fuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 26, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 26, 2007 since you're still designing, why not add a second set of injectors? On paper, this is a great idea... small primaries, coupled with large secondaries up stream. Keep in mind the costs and complexity go up significantly... double the injectors, double the fuel rails, double the mounts/bosses, potential accessibility issues with the secondry set, blah, blah, blah. like sequential.... one for better atomization one for direct fuel Actually, what you're referring to is 'staged' injection. Sequential refers to the injectors being timed with the valves, opening once every other revolution. As opposed to batch-fired, opening every revolution with disregard of valve timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 For the first design, we are going to keep it simple. 95% of the L28's around aren't going to need or use 12 injectors. If people were commonly maxing out 1000cc injectors on their turbo setups I could see it, but thats not really happening as far as I can tell. So the major question would be the primary use for these intake manifolds. I'm trying to find sources for thicker (0.125" thickness) plenum material. This will make the manifolds much more durable for turbocharged setups. I will try to correctly locate the injector ports in the cylinder head flange from the drawings I've received from Ron. From there, I'm going to make some detailed dimensioned drawings to send out to a couple places for quote. If anyone knows of a good machinist with a 5 axis CNC, Let me know there contact information. I'd like to send these drawings off for quote this coming week. Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 26, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 26, 2007 I will try to correctly locate the injector ports in the cylinder head flange from the drawings I've received from Ron. Justin, They're offset .150" from the centerline of each runner. Drawings should pretty clearly indicate which direction, per cylnder. If you need me to work on that aspect of the drawings just shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 Thanks Ron, No problem, I should be able to get it dialed in today after I get back from the beach. Regards, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 If anyone knows of a good machinist with a 5 axis CNC, Let me know there contact information. I'd like to send these drawings off for quote this coming week. Justin, I made a few phone calls and each machinist I spoke to said that doing these on a 5 axis CNC will be astronomical in cost. They all said that it could be done on a standard 3 axis machine with careful attention to stops and re-positioning at a fraction of the cost. I have someone who would be able to do it who is located here (near the Kennedy Space Center) (we have unbelievable access to highly technical specialists here). If you'd like to talk to him, let me know and I'll put you in touch with him Ken ken280z@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffp Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Two things I would do, since you are in the design phase of the build. I would point the injector towards the the incoming air flow. I wouls also place the injector as close to the inlet port as well in this configuration. The second thing I would do is make the tubes (with the injector bungs) removable, so that you can turn them around to point the injector to spray with the air flow into the port. Oring the tubes and you should be in there. You will have some ideal advantages with this design. The first thing is that you can test the intake both ways to see if there is an increase in fuel atomization pointing the injector one way or the other. The second thing that is really cool, is that you can then tune the intake for your driving needs, meaning you can shorten, or lengthen the tubes to get the intake for a running rpm range to work the best. This to me is an excellent test bed to do some testing of the various components that are regarded as a performance change like velocity stacks, length and the like, for each runner. Anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_racer1999 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Actually, what you're referring to is 'staged' injection. Sequential refers to the injectors being timed with the valves, opening once every other revolution. As opposed to batch-fired, opening every revolution with disregard of valve timing. thanks.... i never know about these terminologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 We need to KISS on this first design. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted May 31, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 31, 2007 We need to KISS on this first design. Justin Justin, Sorry buddy. I really do like you, but not in that way… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 1, 2007 Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2007 We need to KISS on this first design. Actually... its not the first one I fired up the first one last weekend... its running really nicely. With a mild cam, its pulling CLEANLY through 7000rpm, with only a modest drop in bottom end torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 KISS.... Keep It Simple Stupid Sorry for my lack of progress lately. I've actually been working on my car in my spare time. A welcome change for me. I'll work on the flange when I get out of school tonight. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted June 1, 2007 Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2007 Actually... its not the first one I fired up the first one last weekend... its running really nicely. With a mild cam, its pulling CLEANLY through 7000rpm, with only a modest drop in bottom end torque. I think Ron is being conservative here. Having driven this car to our shop from the dyno shop, after the “before” dyno pull, and riding in it this week with the head work, new intake, cam and WOLF EFI, my butt dyno says the low end torque is probably pretty close to what it was, though there definitely is more in the mid range and WAY more on the top as it just keeps pulling harder and harder through 7k. This intake definitely allows the engine to breathe freely on top and my butt dyno tells me it didn’t sacrifice much if anything down low.. I know, never trust your butt dyno. Ron will have the actual before and after dyno figures in the near future to either deny or confirm this… KISS.... ...... Keep It Simple Stupid. Justin Would you settle for a hug instead?.. Oh, and I prefer to be called simple instead of the other “S” word.. We reserve that name for Ron... You do know that I am just goofin right? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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