Lunar240z Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 my unit is powered by one of those "big plugs" [ thats the technical term for it] which is 220v i guess, and my welder came with a little electrical box that it's special cord plugs into, so we were thinking of getting a 220v dryer cord, and putting the electrical box [that the welder plugs into] on the end, and plugging into that. we'll make a more permanent solution later on, but would this work for now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 You just need to make sure the wire used to hook up the box is rated for the current draw of the welder. You then also need the correct size breaker in the main electrical box. Do a google search on wiring a hot tub. There are numerous on line write ups that should tell you everything you need to keep from hurting something. I would strongly suggest doing the more permanent solution from the get go. The problem with "just for now" solutions is it becomes too easy to keep using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Hi: The welder should say on it some where what the amperage and the voltage It needs thats what tell you what size wire and the size of the plug,20,30, 50amp. and breaker you need. Look for a tag on the welder. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 "Typically" 220V welders have a NEMA 6-50 plug that for a single phase 50 amp circuit. Electric washers and dryers are "typically" wired on a 30 amp circuit. I say typically in quotes because ya never know what new creative ways people and manufacturers find to wire thngs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar240z Posted May 26, 2006 Author Share Posted May 26, 2006 so the best bet is to get an electrician over here to put some plugs in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Whew... you might want to consider having an electrician come out and wire the thing for you... What I have done for my garage is cheat.. I won't even dicuss what I did with 2 circuits... But what I have done for mobile applications is probably what most folks need to do... 10 Guage 3 conductor wire... "SO" cable... flexible, abrasion and chemical resistant.... it is $2.75 per foot.... expect to spend some $$$$ for a 75 footer.... wire that directly into you welder box... then attach a dryer plug to the other end... run it onto the house and don't slam the door on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iskone Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 I've read it's not good to power your welder with more than 30ft of cable. I have a Millermatic 210 and used a 30amp circut. The welder will tell you the operating range. If you don't know how to wire just ask the guys at the Hardware store. It's no harder then anything else you woud do in a car. Isk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twizted Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 10 gauge wire is only rated for 30 amps. Most generators and all dryers are 30 amps. Stoves are rated for 50 amps and use 6 or 8 gauge wire. 8 gauge will work but 6 gauge is preferred. Anything over 50 feet in length you need to up the wire size. Alot of the newer dryer/stove cords are 4 wires. (Black hot, Red hot, White Neutral, Green/bare ground). If your welder is 3 wire or dryer/stove is 3 wire then you are eliminating the white neutral wire (it's not really needed anyways). Hot tub wiring is a good idea although they do vary in amperage from 30-70 amps so that leaves alittle doubt. Check your specs on your welder and hopefully that info will help. Wiring is not very difficult, just intimidating at first glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some-Guy Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 a regular stove wire will handle a welder making 120 amps at 100% all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some-Guy Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 i know thats what iam using haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twizted Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Not safely tho. You may be doing that but it is not recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 My 145 amp welder runs on a 30 amp outlet. I have a 55 amp subpanel in the garage, fed with 4 gauge wire from the main panel 85 feet away. I have a separate 30 amp breaker in the subpanel with maybe 25 feet of 10 guage wire feeding the welder outlet. It would have to be a pretty big mofo welder to need a 50 amp outlet. If you can afford that much welder you can afford to hire an electrictian and have it done right. The hot-tub writeups I told you about will give you info on the correct wire size and the 4 wire requirement to wire a subpanel. Really, putting a subpanel with separate breakers in the garage is the only way to go. Most tools run better on 220V and it is nice to have the breakers handy. I have separate breakers for the compressor, radial arm saw, welder and the shop lights/outlets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iskone Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 This thread inspired me to upgrade my breaker and wiring to 50amps and raised a question. I was using 6/3 outdoor with a new "welder" plug. In the middle of installing it I kept thinking "big fat live wires and a tiny 12ga ground!?" eventually I got ticked off and poulled it all out. Did any of you install 6/3 and have any problems? I have a Miller 210. Either way I'm going with a 4 wire (I don't remember what it is really called) so I can have 3 big fat wires powering my welder. Isk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twizted Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 4 wires with 6 gauge power wires is called 6/3. It's considered 6/3 with a ground. Having a ground is a nonspoken constant. Yes, the ground is always smaller. It doesn't have to be as big as the power wires and the neutral wire. Especially if you use a neutral wire, the neatral wire takes some of the "left over" electricity back into the breaker box instead of sending to ground and thus wasting it. Going with the outdoor wire (called UF) is definately the way to go. Then you don't have to run it thru conduit, which some inspectors are picky on anyways. Pop N, your wiring is perfect for a 55 amp service and 30 amp outlet and going with a subpanel box for garage/shop is the best way to go. I don't actually own a welder. I have set many customers up with wiring them tho. I went from being a Nissan parts manager to a manager of a fortune 50 home improvement/ hardware store. I'm just saying what is recomended not what can work.Although I seriously doubt that your welder is pulling 145 amps. It may be the rating of the welder but not the amperage draw that it needs to operate. Or your just not using it to it's fullest. Remember 7lbs. of boost is what Nissan recommends but we all know you can get 15lbs. with ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iskone Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Well the wire I had must not have been 6/3 then. It only had 2 wires (White and Black) and the puny ground. That would've been fine? I would still rather have the thicker ground, unless it is not recomended. Isk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twizted Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 That would be fine. You only need to have 3 wires to get 220v (actually 2 but we won't go there, hehe). It's the older wiring ways (pre-76 I believe) with no neutral. Instead of the neutral wire being white you will be using the white wire for your second "hot" wire. You don't have to have a thicker ground but if it'll give you piece of mind then by all means go for it. The usual is by having the ground one gauge smaller than the power but it's not a rule, it just saves them money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iskone Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Big ol' ground it is then. Thanks Isk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 If the only thing that is going to be plugged into the circuit is a single 220V device, then there should be absolutely no current in the ground/neutral wire. All the current should flow through the black and white wires. For a single outlet you only need the two fat wires and one tiny ground. If you are going to put in a subpanel, then you need the "big ole fat" neutral wire. A subpanel feed should have a 3 fat wires (black and red hot wires with a white neutral) and a separate ground wire. You then need to make certain you wire the subpanel so that the neutral and ground wires are NOT connected at the subpanel. That way you can put some 110V outlets in the subpanel, in which case the white neutral wire will carry current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 actually.... the number of conductors listed depends on the type of wire... flexible multistrand "SO" cable lists ALL wires including ground.. because they are all insulated individually... Romex, BX, and other permamnent installed cables do not list ground in the conductor counts... because the ground is not individually insulated.... you should not use a breaker any larger than you need to operate the welder... most welders draw less than 15 AMPs... a 20AMP breaker is correct for this use... I will not comment on wire guage... but I will comment on the fact the solid strand wire CANNOT BE SUBJECTED TO FLEXING.... it must be contained in an electrical box and fastened to structural members every 16 inches... a short pigtail of multistranded "SO" cable is used to jump from the box to the welder... 220V outlets should have a cutoff switch/pull contacts at the point of use... you should not mess with ANY(dryer included) 220V outlet without turning the breaker or switch off FIRST.... Grounds should be the same guage as the other conductors..... this is important... you can cause a fire if you fail to match all of the conductors guages.. including ground. Ground and neutral have no common purpose... they are completely independant... there is NO CASE where ground and neutral work together... DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE... EVER!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iskone Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I'm not sure if those comments are directed at me or not. But ina any case I'll go over my setup. I was mistaken earlier I have a Millermatic 175 and after rereading the specs I think I had the wrong idea about the circut I should use. Input Power Requires 1-Phase Power 230 V, 19.5 A, 60 Hz Rated Output 130 A at 20 VDC, 30% Duty Cycle Welding Amperage Range 30 - 175 Amps I was planning to use a 50amp circut and only use three wires of the cable Red, Black, and White. Red and Black live to the breaker and White to the ground. After looking over the specs I think I may need to go back to the 30amp circut breaker but still use the same wiring plan. Only the welder is on this breaker. It is outside just under my panel I have a peice of conduit going into an outdoor outlet box from the panel. I was using outdoor cable for overkill. Sound right? Or should I go all the way down to 20amps? DO NOT want break my welder. Isk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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