Guest hegan1956 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I have seen the triple weber manifolds modified for TBs and I understand they work fine, but my idea came from a buddy of mine that use to run six cyl Gasser during the 60's & 70s. they would build an intake very similar to what is proposed here and set 3 2 bl. Holley's on it. They had problems with mid range stumble, so they tried direct port using a two bl for each pair of cyl. It solved the problem of stumble but gave up a lot of lower range torque. So they started looking at direct porting a barrel to each cyl. still it lost low end power. Finally someone got the wild idea to copy a set of headers in reverse by pairing the firing orders as far apart as possible. That helped a lot, but what finally did the trick was a small plenum with a reversion tube connecting all plenums to balance the pulses. Then when a valve opened the charge was pulled in then a closing pulse allowing time for a charge to fill before the next pull. It helped their power band enough to drop .5 off their 1/4 mile times and let them win a national points meet. He believed they would have gotten better if they would have stuck with it, but they changed to a small block ford and changed class because of weight breaks. I always remembered that about the six manifolds and now that I have a six I was wondering if it would work on this one. The engine they ran it on was a 300 CID Ford 6 so being so much larger it might not be applicable, but it just might. Especially if someone had the welding know how and the equipment to try and build one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 robtpt well said! hegan1956 I've been having trouble invisioning this manifold. I presonally believe that indvidual throttle bodies are for track use for the quick throttle response. but that .5 second drop in time has sprang my intrest. can you post a drawing of how this looks and I'll draw one up for the L6 and run a test on it. I started this post to help the L6 guys out by running flowtest and bouncing ideas back and forth to try and come up with the best flow tested design possible. Keep it coming guys and I'll keep running flow test. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadytrixta1 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 How much do you think that manifold will cost Cody? Let me know, I may be interested. Hey man, not sure how much they are gonna be.I finally got a fuel rail and injectors now all im looking for is a megasquirt.Then ill really be looking into that intake manifold.Hopefully when i get it back together it will last awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 18, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2007 I started this post to help the L6 guys out by running flowtest and bouncing ideas back and forth to try and come up with the best flow tested design possible. Keep it coming guys and I'll keep running flow test. TBS, Care to test mine?... http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117607 I'll provide you with DXF's if you want to have a go at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted May 19, 2007 Author Share Posted May 19, 2007 rontyler I'll be happy to test your manifold. send the dxfs to hangman48@hotmail.com and I'll get on it. Also would you please send me the dxfs for the manifold flange. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 I just got around to this post... lots of conventional thinking, and some unconventional as well recently. But what of one of the most powerful L28ET's at the time: The Electramotive #83 Car? It's manifold was a plenum simple log-style, no taper, with large diameter tubes that were flanged to a Cannon Intake Manifold that was bolted to the head. The plenum and initial runner sections were connected to stubflanges on the Cannon via some Rubber Tubes and Clamps (maybe for vibration, mabe for practicality in installation----who knows?) But one of the intersting variations was that on some permutations they pressurized the plenum section on a T/B mounted facing the head, between cylinders 3 & 4. I know the dynamics of a diffuser being placed so close to flowing air results in a much improved pressurization of the vessel the air is flowing into, and may solve some of the issues you guys are seeing with the tapered conventional front-entry plenums. Eventually, I believe Electramotive used the two-piece plenum design, with conventional front entry, while BSR stayed with the mid-plenum entry. Absolutely no dimensions as requested, but I thought since nobody has mantioned that possibility (AZ Z-Car once offered a manifold like this as well I believe) that it may be worth investigating as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADY280 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 ive always wondered that tony, i just dont know enough about it to actually put it like you have. ive looked at that manifold for years. thought to myself why are they all doing that instead of a "engineered" race setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow_Old_Car Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 photos of this electromotive setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 22, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 22, 2007 ive looked at that manifold for years. thought to myself why are they all doing that instead of a "engineered" race setup! You make it sound as if that information is readily available and, somehow, a "race setup" is appropriate for a street engine. Am I reading you wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 23, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 23, 2007 rontyler I'll be happy to test your manifold. Thanks. DXF is 'in the mail'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADY280 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 well when i build street engines, they tend to be not as streetable as ppl like them to be. so in my theroy, this intake is my street version. using pix is usually my basline to get something correct. going by the pix on zhome, in the electromotive writeup, and anything else ive come across is good enough to build off of. then just some fine tuning and reading on this site about the finer points of airflow, and one day i shall have my intake. i do alot of reading, and now with the ability to TIG weld, im going to be on my way in the next 2 or so years. (got too many projects to get done or it would be less time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 26, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 26, 2007 photos of this electromotive setup? I initially thought Tony was referring to this manifold... but I see it doesn't quite match his description, save for the central mouted TB facing the head. I'm sure Tony would like to comment on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 wha? is that mechanical fuel injection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADY280 Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 thats the photo i was thinking of. there has got to be a dang good reason forthe central tb. pressure drop or something, im not a flow guy, but can someone model it and see? this may reduce or eliminate all the turbulence everyone seems to be fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 26, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 26, 2007 this may reduce or eliminate all the turbulence everyone seems to be fighting. If it matters, I'm not 'fighting turbulence'. I've had my manifold static CFD tested, and its not too shabby. I've got a couple areas I'd like to clean up, but overall, I'd call it successful, statically. I'll make the results public soon enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow_Old_Car Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 If it matters, I'm not 'fighting turbulence'. I've had my manifold static CFD tested, and its not too shabby. I've got a couple areas I'd like to clean up, but overall, I'd call it successful, statically. I'll make the results public soon enough... how are things looking for producing these though? it's so frustrating when really good parts only get made in runs of 1-5 before fizzling out ya know? not that you haven't heard that a million times before i'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 The main problem is that people get all excited when people start developing parts. They say there first in line to have one when they go into production. The problem comes when people actually see the price of quality products. In general people want the best, but aren't willing to pay the price. That is why you see such small batches on these custom parts. I'm personally just modeling Ron's intake manifold for the fun of it. I'm not trying to make any money on the deal. I'm just doing the drawings so I can have the flanges machined for my own car. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Amen!!! The quickest way to ruin your hobby is to make it a business. It has to be for the love of it. The reason good art is so beautiful is that is was done for no other reason but to make the artist happy. Commercial art is usually trying to make everybody happy, and in doing so really becomes a compromise. I know there is a lot of you out there who know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADY280 Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 the reason i say fighting turbulenece, is that seems to be the big talk when it comes to some manifolds. i really dont follow stuff like that cause i cant measure it. dont have the time or equiptment, nor does my ride have as much power potential as others do. im just interested in it because its one of the final steps to my motor other than a better fi setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I think the best way to fight turbulance would be to have a completely tubular intake "header" after the TB. You could also make them equal length so you wouldn't have problems with unequal distribution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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