How do u set timing with out a timing light ?

[NISMO619]

ok hears thep roblem i bought a 1983 280zx turbo 2+2 digital dash for 250- bucks the guy told me it was out of tune and he tried to set timing... he didint use a timing light and he took off the oil pump and oil drive shaft to the distributor.. i have looked in the hanynes manual and have read that book over 15 times now.. and i still am having problems setting the timing and spark timing... hears wat i have done so far.. i set the cam timing to 30* before top dead center and set the spark timing to number 6 spark plug.. the car started but wouldnt keep runing.. i had to keep the gas petal all the way to the floor.. .. i knew this wasnt right so i tried it again.. this time i set the cam timing to 20 * before top dead center and set the spark timing to number 1 spark plug.. now the car wont start i am out of money and dont have any body wit ha timing light.. even worse the orginal hood is missing the timing sticker that tells u what to set the timing... ui have a hood off a 1981 280zxt auto that says 20* before top dead center.. but i have nothing on the iggy timing ? can any one help me out with out useing a timing light.. ? please e-mail me whitetiger88101@yahoo.com thanks , Ken:sad:

[JMortensen]

First, please try to use proper punctuation. It makes your post easier to read.

 

As far as the timing issue goes, you really need a light. Go to Harbor Freight, or order from them online. You can get a timing light for $12.99: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3343

 

As far as pulling the oil pump, that's something you should rarely if ever have to do. Timing should be adjusted with the bolts on the distributor. There is a 10mm bolt in the front and an 8mm bolt in the back. You can loosen them both and rotate the distributor to change the timing. You should have something like a 40 degree sweep, so that should get you where you need to be. On the rare occasion that it doesn't, then the oil pump needs to be removed and the distributor drive repositioned. Very rare that this would happen though, and it usually does when the engine is rebuilt and the shaft is installed in the wrong position.

 

The ZXT had non-adjustable timing. The NA version had the adjustable timing as previously mentioned, so disregard the sticker from the ZXT. If you are running vacuum advance you'll probably want the timing at about 10 degrees BTDC at idle, if you're not then more like 17 or 18 degrees.

 

I don't know why you messed with the cam timing, or how you figure that you got it at 20 degrees BTDC, but I'm actually fairly doubtful that either of those things happened. The cam sprocket only has 3 holes in it, 0 degrees, 4 degrees early, and 4 degrees retarded. You actually have to pull the cam sprocket off, rotate the gear, and hook it back up to adjust cam timing. If you did this and weren't aware of what you were doing, theres a 99% chance that you would have lost the tensioner and wouldn't have been able to get the sprocket back on the cam. You're not complaining about that, so I don't think that the cam timing has really been messed with at all.

 

We don't email responses here, it defeats the purpose of the forum. The responses stay on the forum, that way if someone else has the same problem, they can look and see your post and the answer given.

[NISMO619]

That was no help at all....

 

This is what i do .. i take out number one spark plug right ?

 

i instert a small rod just long enough about 8 inche long into the bore wait until the pistion reaches the tops of the cylendar thats TDC right ?

 

Then i pull off the oil pump and pull out the shaft then i re put in the shaft were does the iggy rotor supose to line up at ?

 

so basicly.. set first pistion to TDC ...

then what do i set the iggy rotor too ?....

 

 

?????????

[NISMO619]

seriosuly... how do i set it wout out a timing light

[JMortensen]

Unless you've rotated your crank damper 30 degrees you can just line the timing marks up on the damper. No need to put anything through the spark plug hole.

[Guest ZFury]

How do you set the timming with out a light?... Just listen to what the motor says to ya' when you twist the distro'.

[BRAAP]

Uh,.. hmmm.. well.. “How do you set the timing without a timing light?”

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here but there is no real way to actually KNOW where your ignition timing will be within 10-15 degrees or so without using an actual timing light. You can get it within 10-20 degrees of the desired fire off point, but that is it. You may even get lucky and get it set right where you wanted it though the odds are not in your favor. Sorry.

 

You need a timing light, even you have to borrow one. That is the only way to verify your ignition timing is ANYWHERE close to where it needs/you want it to be.

 

Good luck

[savageskaterkid]

That was no help at all....

 

This is what i do .. i take out number one spark plug right ?

 

i instert a small rod just long enough about 8 inche long into the bore wait until the pistion reaches the tops of the cylendar thats TDC right ??????????

 

 

 

not always true, in a 4 stroke motor, the crank makes 2 full revolutions meaning that the number 1 piston could be at TDC just before the power stroke or at the top just after the exhaust stroke.

 

Take off your valve cover and look at the number 1 cylinders valves, then set it to TDC, if both valves are closed-then its TDC, if not turn the motor till it comes back up with both valves closed.

[Guest ZFury]

Actually you should be able to know if your at TDC by looking at the rotor in the distributor. It will be pointing in a certain direction.

 

 

The set and drive, set and drive, set and drive, method works well for setting the timing.

[savageskaterkid]

I considered that, but he also messed with the pump drive and distributor, so it could be off as well.

 

If you use the valves as a guide, then you can use that reference to set the pump drive and rotor facing the number one plug. This should give you a 0* timing. From there you should be able to retard it a few degrees by turning the distributor housing.

 

This sounds as though it would work, I have niether done this or have a reason to, but in theory it should work. Tell me if I'm wrong or not though.

[roger.svoboda]

If you are talking about just getting it running then you need to do this. There is a piece o metal with teeth marked in degrees 0 to 30 to the left of the crank pully looking at the engine. You should be able to move the engine around until you see a notch in the pully that matches to the 0 degree mark. Pull the rocker cover. If the two cams for #1 cylinder are pointing out and up one to each side of the car you are at the top of the power stroke. If one of the cams is down you are at the beginning of the intake stroke. Move the engine 360 degrees and you are now at TDC for the power stroke. Pull the dizzy cap you should see line on the cap with a number 1 stamped there. this is the #1 spark plug wire hole. Your rotor should be pointing at this spot. You will note that there are six indents in the distributor where the cap mounts and they correspond to the six cylindrs. If the rotor is not pointing to #1 plug wire you need to drop the oil pump. need to drop the sway bar first so you can drop the oil pump. I cut a 6" M8 bolt head off to use as a guide pin otherwise you be cussing all night. The guide pin wil keep the oil pump under control while you move the gear and rally makes it easy to get back up where it belongs. Get a picture in your head of where the rotor needs to go to point to #1. Drop the oil pump until you see the gear. Turn the gear to where you think it needs to go. Put in one bolt to hold it go back up and check the rotor position. continue until rotor is in correct position. Check firing order when you put the plug wires on. As said above to get timing on correct you need a timing light. Schucks and probably other auto parts stores will generally rent you one.

[Noddle]

If you are talking about just getting it running then you need to do this. There is a piece o metal with teeth marked in degrees 0 to 30 to the left of the crank pully looking at the engine. You should be able to move the engine around until you see a notch in the pully that matches to the 0 degree mark. Pull the rocker cover. If the two cams for #1 cylinder are pointing out and up one to each side of the car you are at the top of the power stroke. If one of the cams is down you are at the beginning of the intake stroke. Move the engine 360 degrees and you are now at TDC for the power stroke. Pull the dizzy cap you should see line on the cap with a number 1 stamped there. this is the #1 spark plug wire hole. Your rotor should be pointing at this spot. You will note that there are six indents in the distributor where the cap mounts and they correspond to the six cylindrs. If the rotor is not pointing to #1 plug wire you need to drop the oil pump. need to drop the sway bar first so you can drop the oil pump. I cut a 6" M8 bolt head off to use as a guide pin otherwise you be cussing all night. The guide pin wil keep the oil pump under control while you move the gear and rally makes it easy to get back up where it belongs. Get a picture in your head of where the rotor needs to go to point to #1. Drop the oil pump until you see the gear. Turn the gear to where you think it needs to go. Put in one bolt to hold it go back up and check the rotor position. continue until rotor is in correct position. Check firing order when you put the plug wires on. As said above to get timing on correct you need a timing light. Schucks and probably other auto parts stores will generally rent you one.

 

Use what Roger said to get the Dizzy set up,

 

I'm not sure what Distributor setup is in your car, i.e. points / electronic, but if its point why not "Static" time it, it should be enough for you to get the car running, here a link I found, its for MG cars, but the theory is the same, http://www.custompistols.com/cars/articles/ignition_timing.htm

also if its a electronic dizzy, you should be able to do simular to this, but without the light, but when you turn the dizzy, you should be able to hear it "spark", to indicate what the timing is..

 

 

 

Nigel

[twoeightythreez]

Get the motor to TDC as suggested in the post. Once you've verified the motor is actually at TDC using the rod method, etc. check the damper and make sure it lines up with the "0" mark on your timing pointer. Install the dizzy so it's pointing at #1 and ensure you have equal adjustment in either direction.

If this is all squared away you can now turn the crank damper mark to the timing mark corresponding to your initial static timing. My '78 called for 10deg BTDC. Once you have the crank damper pointer at 10deg BTDC (or whatever value you want to set it at) turn the dizzy until the rotor again points at #1. Tighten the dizzy bolts down only enough to hold the dizzy but allow you to still turn it, reinstall the cap, and make sure your firing order is right. This will definitely get the car running, if you do it right the timing will be within 2-3 degrees of what you wanted. Disconnect your EGR valve (temporarily) and plug the vacuum source so it doesn't leak. Warm the car up and drive it up a steep hill in 5th gear at low speed(less than 2000rpm), and floor it. Stop the car periodically and advance the timing a bit at a time. You'll be ADVANCING the timing if you hear the idle speed go up when you turn the dizzy. Once you just barely hear ping, retard the dizzy a hair, tighten your dizzy down, hook your EGR back up and you should be good. I never actually timed my Z with a light until I installed MS-II; at that point I had owned the car for 3 years. You should really get a timing light when you get the chance though.

[NISMO619]

Thanks to every body at hybrid z your guys are the best by far ! SO far this is what ive done i took off the valve cover got out my 19mm open end wrench and turned the cam to TDC but when i look down onto the timimg marks 0-30 * it says 16 degress at top of the stroke.

I set the dizzy to spark number 1 .. i will agree that the car starts and runs, but it only stays started when i hold the gas petal down and wont rev over 3,000 rpms. im gonna try it again today as its my only other day off. im gonna try and rotate the crank to say 12* and put the spark timing back to number 1 spark plug hears what i do to set the dizzy timing , i get otu a 12,mm 3/8 size socket with extestion 6 inch. i take off the dizzy until i am able to see the " ROD " then i clamp the rod with a pair of needle nose " vise grip " being careful not to harm the shaft. then i unlooseing the oil pump and slowly wiggle it out taking out hte bolts first then turning the oil pump 180* to clear the sway bar. the oil pump comes out eazyilthen with the long needle nose pliers i push down on the shaft until the threads releese and then i turn the dizzy shaft until i get the half moon facing towards t he radiator cap. PERFECT !

 

I will let every one know later on how it goes...Wish me luck...

[nismopick]

nismo.... is there a reason you don't find a timing light & use it? You can rent one (and get your $ back upon return) at AutoZone... Checker.... etc....