13" rotors and Outlaw 4000 calipers

[blueovalz]

In the never-ending saga of the BlueovalZ (I get bored easily when this car sits with no work being done on it) I finally installed the larger (and final) upgrade to the front brakes. I used the C5 rotors with the Outlaw 4000 series calipers. Some might wonder (as I have at times) why use the C5 rotors when Wilwood and others are available. My rational was I will be able to get these rotors anywhere and any machine shop can do the minor work needed to bolt them onto the Z hubs. The rears will be done next month which will use the front '87 Supra rotors (12") with the same type of calipers (using smaller 1.25" pistons for .81" rotors).

 

 

[Jolane]

Blue,

 

That looks like it fills the wheel nicely. Question though; why weld the caliper bracket to the spindle mount? Seems like the 2 bolts would have been just fine. Is the spindle very weldable stuff (as in strong)? Steel? Cast Iron?

 

Joshua

[nazar]

if i were you i'd bolt it in for extra safety margin, especially since those welds dont look to be the strongest in the word

[DavyZ]

if i were you i'd bolt it in for extra safety margin, especially since those welds dont look to be the strongest in the word

 

Judging by the tremendous amount of quality fabrication on Terry's car and the fact that he is an engineer, I seriously doubt he would put himself or his car at risk. I don't think a couple of pictures is enough to tell the whole story here, and he may not even be done yet with the project.

 

Davy

[boodlefoof]

Lookin' good Terry! I'll be using C5 front brakes on mine as well.

[RedNeckZ]

What minor machine work would be needed to make them work? I am interested in this setup and would like to find out what the machine shop had to do? Also how thick is the mounting plate you used in this swap? The only other question is, what size rims do we have to use on this setup?

[blueovalz]

All good comments! The welds on the back side don't have the penetration I desired, but were mainly to seal the gap. The welds on the front are good welds with great penetration. I've welded on several Z spindle bosses (front and rear) and both take a weld very well. I originally designed this to be bolt-on only, but after bolting them together, I felt (after past experimentation and destructive strength testing experience) that welding was a better option (I never intend to change these anyway). This bracket ain't coming off (but yes, I did install a single bolt on each strut)

 

The material is 1/2" steel, and the rotor machine work consisted of opening the hub to 81mm (with a chamfer), and drilling four 10mm holes on a 103mm bolt pattern ($55 worth of work). Because of the wheels I'm using (I only have a 5/8" difference between the wheel mounting plane and the spoke plane), I moved the rotor further inboard by 1/4" with a spacer between the rotor mounting flange and the rotor. This gives me about .200" gap between the caliper and the spokes on my 17" diameter wheels.

 

One other thing (as some of you have wheels with a larger gap between the spokes and the caliper), you may be able to use any other Z or ZX hub as well. In my choice, I had to have the thickest possible wheel flange (because it then pushes the rotor further inboard), which ends up being on the 280Z hubs (25mm thick).

As with some of the Wilwood conversions, I had to grind some material off the control arm in the area surrounding the ball joint opening due to rubbing on the rotor when the suspension was a static ride height. Use of roll-center spacers aggravates this situation.

[260zturbo]

iv read their are alot of cons on the outlaws. bascially people with wilwoods vs outlaws. i had the chance to get a set of outlaws or a set of wilwoods. i chose wilwoods. very nice fab how well do the outlaws preform?

[MikeK280z]

iv read their are alot of cons on the outlaws.

 

Can you elaborate on that?

 

Thanks

[JMortensen]

Outlaw vs Wilwood thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=108750

[MikeK280z]

Outlaw vs Wilwood thread: [url']http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=108750[/url]

 

I'm familiar with the this thread.

 

I saw 2 potential cons in the Outlaw vs Wilwood thread. One was about an aleged Eric Messley's opinion which John Coffey countered, and the other has to do with dirt track racing calipers flexibility, not the 2800 or 4000 calipers.

 

Here is a John Coffey quote from that thread:

 

"I had no problems with the Outlaw 2800s that were on the ROD and the braking was as good as 275/45-16 Hoosiers can give. Erik came around after he drove the car a few times. The older more open backed circle track racing Outlaws are very flexible but the 2800s are designed for us road racing guys."

 

So what are the cons? I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm considering the Outlaw set up when it comes time to upgrade my brakes. Is there any tech to back this statement up?

[blueovalz]

What I really like about the Outlaws is (the 3000 and 4000 series any way):

1) The bolt placement. This caliper uses 3 bridge bolts (plus the top 2 smaller bolts) on the 3000 and 4000 series (total of 8). The caliper is long enough so that the outer bolts are placed in an optimal position to prevent asymetrical expansion under pressure.

2) The bolt desing allows plenty of air to flow out of the vented rotor

3) The SS shields provide a good thermal barrier

4) Not a typical attribute, but the bolt spacers that surround the bolts can be machined (or replaced by different length spacers) to different lengths allowing easy modifications so that these calipers fit other than 1.25" or .81" wide rotors.

 

Lastly (now that I driven it, and done some pad bedding), I love the modulation and feel. But this could also be attributed to the large diameter rotor as well. No fade... and ya got to love that!