More Mock-Up Pics..Getting Closer!..WGate+Turbo+SFP Manifold

[slownrusty]

Making some progress gang!

 

I spent many a late hour at my fabricator's shop over the past few weeks, mostly modifying my SFP manifold to run an external 38mm TiAL Wastegate and then also welding on "ears" to run heim jointed braces for additional support...its finally done! Don't even ask how many $$$ I have into this stupid exhaust manifold!

 

Here are the mock-up pics from this morning and next I will be starting to mock-up my 2.5" intercooler piping.

 

My plan is completion in about 4 weeks...x-fingers. More pics to come!

 

With the intake mounted + 67mm BMW Throttle Body:

 

Another view, wategate looking through:

 

without the intake:

 

Regards - Yasin

[phantaz]

looking good... im sure you've checked but damn you look close to your dizzy if your cap was on it.. or is that just the angle of the picture? good looking box though.

[Guest 280ZForce]

glad to see you found a fitting turbo for it. any luck on the hacked up haltech stuff you got?

[slownrusty]

Phantaz - Lots of room with distributor cap mounted, looks deceptive in the picture

 

J - No progress with the Haltech...I might have to call Vildini and ask a few questions. I want to get all the mechanical stuff done first before getting into the electrics...glad I got a turbo to fit too!

 

Regards - Yasin

[Drax240z]

Dude, that wastegate position is really unfortunate. Is there any way you can use a weld-el off the bottom (center) of the 6-1 collector and attach the wastegate there instead? I'm not sure your WG is going to be able to control boost very well in its current position.

[Clifton]

Although not the best location for a WG. I had mine mounted like that on the stock manifold for a while before moving the engine back. I didn't have any boost issues.

[slownrusty]

Drax - On an L6 turbo manifold there is absolutely zero space to install an external wastegate. The ideal place is at the collector under the flange where the Turbo sits, but you cannot install a wastegate there as it will conflict with the steering linkage and its VERY tight under there anyway.

 

Did you not see Austin 240Hoke's post? This was discussed on his thread as well, as that is also the location he chose.

 

Yasin

[proxlamus©]

i cant wait to race you

 

hey when ya want me to come up there and help ya out? let me know man! id love to see her!

[slownrusty]

Race....if you don't mind loosing!! LOL...j/king bro.

 

Please PM me your tel. no and I'll give you a jingle soon - promise!

 

Yasin

[TimZ]

Drax - On an L6 turbo manifold there is absolutely zero space to install an external wastegate. The ideal place is at the collector under the flange where the Turbo sits, but you cannot install a wastegate there as it will conflict with the steering linkage and its VERY tight under there anyway.

 

Well, you would have to do some surgery on your SFP, but it can be done:

 

If I'd known this was going to come up, I'd have taken a pic of the wastegate before I installed the turbo - DOH!

 

That's an HKS 60mm gate with a GT42R - here's a pic to give some perspective:

[DemonZ]

Please forgive this mild thread-jack, but it seems unintuitive that 321 stainless is used as a slip joint since stainless expands more than the mild steel. I suppose the expansion rate is lower than the thermal conductivity? Under prolonged boost/heat, wouldn't that tend to crack? I guess you'd be running out of hwy by then and doing +185mph.

[xx.jason.xx]

Well, you would have to do some surgery on your SFP, but it can be done:

 

If I'd known this was going to come up, I'd have taken a pic of the wastegate before I installed the turbo - DOH!

 

That's an HKS 60mm gate with a GT42R - here's a pic to give some perspective:

 

 

If I am not mistaken, those are ITBs. Is that your engine? if so, do the ITBs make any real difference, other than being cool as hell? also, where did you source them from?

[TimZ]

If I am not mistaken, those are ITBs. Is that your engine? if so, do the ITBs make any real difference, other than being cool as hell? also, where did you source them from?

Yes, it's mine.

Well, the ITBs do flow really well and allow a bit larger bore runners than the stock manifold. They also offer a larger throttle area, which makes them pretty responsive. The Mikuni manifold sets the ITBs a bit higher which allows me some added room for the larger turbo.

However, they don't like to pull much vacuum and can be pretty cumbersome installation and tuning-wise.

My guess is that a well-made custom manifold like Yasin's (see - I'm trying to get back on track ) would flow just as well, and would most likely be easier to deal with and would pull more vacuum at idle.

On the stainless/mild steel question, when I answered Yasin's post earlier I was thinking more along the lines of the lengthwise expansion. Radial expansion is another issue, for which I don't have a good answer, to be honest. I guess I'll find out soon enough - I don't think that this is the first time something like this has been done, so hopefully it won't be a problem.

[slownrusty]

Tim - Did you see this reply I received from JeffP and TonyD:

 

By Jeff: "Dude, you are going to have nothing but trouble with that manifold, that is if it is from South Flordia Preformance.

 

I had to rework my manifold three times. The first two times the part warped almost 1/4" from end to end. I heated it up at TonyD's house and tried it again. I figured that would set the header, it did not.

The third try I did what Nissan did with their manifold and installed a bellows configuration and made the header three pieces. This has seemed to work, time will tell.

I can tell you one thing though, that header is going to warp within 100 miles or so.

One of the big PITA parts I got for the car. Hope you have better results, but I am sure you will not."

 

Tony: "Man, I will attest to Jeff's travails with that POS header!

It was sanded straight, it was out by maybe 0.100".

 

After it was sanded, flat to less than 0.008", he put it back on, and ran it for maybe six trips around the block. I mean, maybe 50 miles. For some reason he had to go back on the exhaust---maybe a leak or whatever, anyway, as he was pulling the outermost bolts the thing just waaaaaaaarped away from the head. Almost 1/4"!

 

So we took it back to my place, we counterstressed it to .250 using spacers and bolts on the ends (like you straighten a head) to a big I-Beam Section. We preheated the whole thing to orange hot, trying to stress-relieve the damn thing!

 

When it was done, we were within .030" of dead straight. Jeff surfaced that amount back to flat, and reinstalled it on the car.

 

Of course when it was heated again.... welllllll lets just say Jeff was not happy! Warped another 0.250"!!!

 

So what he did was remove the manifold again, cut it in the exact same places the stock Euro Manifold was coupled, and put flexible bellows in the tubing. I believe that is the ONLY way that POS will work. The problem is the lengths of the tubing reaching to the ends are just too long, and the mild steel they use just expands too damn much.

 

Add to the fact they didn't stress-relieve it AT ALL after manufacture leads to a bundle of problems.

 

having seen Jeff's manifold, and put it to an experienced fabricator, I would say save yourself the hassle and pull it off NOW, install the bellows, and relocate your wastegate to someplace else (one is right where the bellows needs to be!).

 

That should solve any problems like we encountered. My fabricator, upon seeing it the first time, before we said anything, was "That is supposed to hold hot exhaust gases on the engine? It's going to warp without bellows in it!" He thought if you stress-relieved it enough with a countering force on it, you might get it to work, but being German he insisted "the right way to build that is with bellows on the longer tubes"

 

I have seen successful four-cylinder headers made like this, and that bellows will make no section longer than that---along with cutting the flange so the ends can move independently from the center section.

 

It should have been stainless, the warpage from heat expansion is not as great, but I still think a bellows or slip-joint will be required even with that!

 

Good Luck, Man!"

 

Have you run your car as yet, I just wanted to know how your SFP header is doing?

 

Yasin

[TimZ]

Yes - I have heard Tony recount that story, too. This was what made me decide to go to the slip joints. My manifold is also warped at the flange, but the nice thing about the slip joint placement is that the stiffness from the header tubes is no longer there. The manifold flange pulls down flat with minimal force from the mounting studs (it was pulled flat when the slip joints were installed, btw).

 

I first looked into doing inconel bellows, but they were unbelievably expensive, so after talking it over with James, decided on the stainless slip joints. As you mentioned, hopefully the welds won't crack.

 

Oddly, even with the cracks that I found in my header, it wasn't exhibiting any appreciable leakage.

[Tony D]

VERY nice slip-jionts, Tim! I think that setup should work just fine.

That is the way it should have been manufactured from SFP!

 

That 321 is very resistant to cracking. The elongation of the manifold is the problem, radial expansion is what makes the slip-joint seal. The outer portion of the joint is considerably cooler than the inner portion, and with a slip fit to begin with, the expansion of the inner portion will make a nice gas-tight seal under load.

 

Yep, I think that setup will work just fine! Looks VERY good!

 

inconel..."unobtanium", priced to match! LOL

[TimZ]

VERY nice slip-jionts, Tim! I think that setup should work just fine.

That is the way it should have been manufactured from SFP!

 

That 321 is very resistant to cracking. The elongation of the manifold is the problem, radial expansion is what makes the slip-joint seal. The outer portion of the joint is considerably cooler than the inner portion, and with a slip fit to begin with, the expansion of the inner portion will make a nice gas-tight seal under load.

 

Yep, I think that setup will work just fine! Looks VERY good!

 

inconel..."unobtanium", priced to match! LOL

 

Okay, that's good to hear - thanks, Tony!

[RB26powered74zcar]

I wonder why my SFP header never once gave me a problem.... I ran the hell out of it for over a year w/o ANY warpage, or leakage.

 

It was JetHot coated their 2000 black, and left unwraped. I think TimO also has had good luck with his (not counting all the trouble he had getting it made and sent to him)