Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I wish I had an opinion but they cost too much... gotta' pay for em' with knowledge and experience:shock: That's okay... I'll just borrow you guys' opinions:wink: Anyway... I'm still sorting through this information and I continue to be undecided. It's my lack of know-how that's always biting me in the butt:icon56: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I don't know why they have a low rating for road courses. It is the Nissan LSD and it has been used in road racing for decades. As to rock crawling, there are 3 types of diffs that get a good score there: Detroit Lockers, selectable lockers, and spools. Reason why is that ANY LSD will slip when one tire comes off the ground, and most rock crawlers are lifting tires all the time. Yes I hear ya. The ratings That I posted was for the nissan LOM55L. They used to give it a 2 of 5 rating on the road course. I have never really known why. I have only speculated that they were not very intuitive tending to stay "locked" untill forced to do otherwise. But really I dont know why. I noticed that the road course rating for the LOM55L wasn't even on the board now. Maybe site maintence. And yes lockers, auto or fixed, are the call for crawling. No prob there. Either way they( LOM55L) retain a better than average rating for strip/street. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I wish I had an opinion but they cost too much... gotta' pay for em' with knowledge and experience:shock: That's okay... I'll just borrow you guys' opinions:wink: Anyway... I'm still sorting through this information and I continue to be undecided. It's my lack of know-how that's always biting me in the butt:icon56: Too much info can be hard to sift through, Yes? I assumed you had gone with the brute. For myself and myself only, I was left with enough assurances. Both from the company, and from the feed back, nearly all positive, that for the street aplication, the brute will do the job properly with reasonable durability and an apllicable warranty. It's on the way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The LOM 55L carrier is for the R180 diff. I have an R200 and it uses the LOM 59-12 carrier, which is a bit stronger than the LOM 55L or 55E units. Also, the R180 carriers came in both 2 and 4 spider versions. The 2 spider carriers are rather weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 11, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 11, 2006 I wish I had an opinion but they cost too much... gotta' pay for em' with knowledge and experience:shock: That's okay... I'll just borrow you guys' opinions:wink: The only opinion you need is mine I think you'd be VERY happy with an R200 with EITHER a Quaife or a clutch-pack. I occasionally hear some disappointment over the Quaife but car set-up is everything.... and its not always clear, when these people run into problems, if its a set-up issue or even a driver issue. Most of the time people are ecstatic over Quaife. I would love to try one myself. The problem is it needs to be on a car that I am familiar with (or have sufficient time to get familiar with), try out set-ups, and also adjust my driving style if needed before I could put my 'stamp' on one. On the other hand, clutch packs are proven. In the end you may find that its an issue of trade-offs... one not necessarily better than the other... just different. Whichever you choose, you'll more than likely be a satisfied costumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 RON... I'm going middle-of-the road by installing a Power Brute carrier in my existing R200. Correct me if I'm wrong... It's more diff than I'm ever likely to need for my car and driving habits. My total cost including shipping and labor for the swap, then the install is well under $1K... somwhere around $850. A Quaife will cost me twice that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ron/Mike, I don't have any experience with the Power Brute, but since you've eliminated the quaife due to the cost then the comparisons need to be made between the clutch LSD and the Power Brute... My gut says that the extra money you'll spend on the power brute will not yield much of a difference in performance over a properly setup clutch type Nissan LSD unit... You'll probably be able to find a 3.7 for $400ish and having someone set it up with the proper break away would be around $150ish... $550 ready to install sounds reasonable. So unless the power brute gets you something better (I have no clue) for similar cost, I'd like to hear what it is... Would be good to comapre the two units to understand the pros and cons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The Power Brute IS the Nissan LSD. It remains to be seen whether it is the better or worse version, but it is made by the same company that makes them for Nissan. $450 for the Nissan LSD is a great deal regardless of which version it is, and the clutch pack issues with the crappy one can be fixed if necessary. Still waiting to hear which version the group buy is going to be getting. If you care to know the differences between the good and the not so good Nissan diffs you can read these threads: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=92629 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=107153 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=112921 Although there is a lot of bickering in there between me and bjhines on the 2nd thread, we eventually were able to isolate the difference between the 300ZXT unit and the other Nissan LSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Jon, I haven't been keeping up with all those threads (many of the pictures are no longer visible)... I started to read them early on, but I had never seen any reference to the power brute being the same as the Nissan clutch type LSD... That's pretty cool if that is the case! I did read with interest the thread on the group buy for the LSD clutch disks but haven't been on hybrid for awhile... I'd like to hear more about the group buy pricing if it's going to happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 KEN/JON... Yes, this is indeed the Nissan LSD manufactured by the same company in Japan. The reason I'm opting to go with the Power Brute is because I don't want to look for a used CLSD... that takes time I don't have... time is $$$. This is a "bird in hand" so-to-speak. Since this is a new unit and it will be properly set up for me, I think this is my best choice. My decision against the Quaife is not entirely $$$ driven. The Quaife can spin one tire in a straight burn-out... not what I want. Also, it's more diff than I need... I'm not racing this car on curvy tracks. JON... Regarding which LSD.. I'll post Tim's reply as soon as I receive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I wonder how long a R200 with Quaife would last behind a turbo LS1 with t56. It been proven they last behind automatic transmission drag cars, but who is going fast with a manual and not breaking the R200? Anyone in the mid/low tens with a manual? Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 UPDATE ON THE POWER BRUTE GROUP BUY... Confirmed with Tim at Reider Racing that the carriers they sell are the better units that Jon referenced in post #48 above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnjdragracing Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Hello Mike, Sorry for the delayed response. With that kind of power you are talking about you are asking a lot IMO. I would weld it up and give it a try. I would worry more about half shafts and other related componets. We are pushing 750rwhp on the NOS, and it is holding for us. But we do not drive it on the street much. If you must spend some money I would back half the car and put a straight axle in with a 4-link, then you will be worried with it. John Thanks John. So... do you think an UNwelded R200 VLSD will hold up against 700HP/700Torque? Will the clutches survive over time? I don't want to weld my diff since this is a street-driven car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Hi John, No apologies necessary... I appreciate your input. You're going to a lot more trouble and $$$ than I want to:D This is just a fun daily driver with some real guts under the hood. All I really want to do is shame just about any Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, Viper, etc. I run across on the street:flamedevi I'm looking for a diff that will lock up both wheels every time, can take 500+ BHP with little worry of wear or failure, and behaves nicely in a street-driven car:cool: Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnjdragracing Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Convert to turbo 300 cv joints and weld the rearend if it is a R200. Then it is a done deal, go have some fun. John Hi John, No apologies necessary... I appreciate your input. You're going to a lot more trouble and $$$ than I want to:D This is just a fun daily driver with some real guts under the hood. All I really want to do is shame just about any Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, Viper, etc. I run across on the street:flamedevi I'm looking for a diff that will lock up both wheels every time, can take 500+ BHP with little worry of wear or failure, and behaves nicely in a street-driven car:cool: Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 JOHN... I'll be converting to the 300 CV joints soon. I'd rather not weld my diff because I want a decent ride on the street. Do you think the Power Brute will fail in my R200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 JOHN... I'll be converting to the 300 CV joints soon. I'd rather not weld my diff because I want a decent ride on the street. Do you think the Power Brute will fail in my R200? That's something I've been wanting to comment on - the jnj car is the one that keeps getting cited as the example of why you don't need more than an r200, but it's using a welded diff (still really impressive, no issues there). I'm not convinced that the r200 would be completely bulletproof behind 700hp on the street without the welded spool. I managed to break my Torsen-equipped r200 with about 450whp. It does appear that the Torsen itself gave out, and I've heard that the Quaife is stronger, but is it 200hp stronger? I dunno. Sure it's guaranteed, but that won't make you feel much better the second or third time you have to be towed home . Even though you aren't likely to be able to hook up well enough to pull a wheelie on the street, things like potholes, expansion cracks/bumps and wreak havok with your shock loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnjdragracing Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I do not know anything about a Power Brute unit. The R200 with CV axles is holding up so far with our car, and believe me we punish it enough. I still cringe when my brother takes off the starting line not knowing what is going to break. To me to be absolute bullet proof with no worries, then I would straight axle it, probably a 9 inch, 4 link it and would run a full spool. Same as being welded, I know you say street use. I have used welded rear ends for about 25 years on the street with out any issues except for some tire chirping around corners. JOhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnjdragracing Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 We never have said you do not need anything more. Just that so far the R200 has done extremely well for us. I agree with you about the R200 on the street with out a welded rear end. It will give the clutches or spyder gears hell, and more than likely break the rear end ( look at Garrett ). Nothing is bullett proof IMO, it would just make you feel better when you pull up at the starting line. I have learned from trial and error. I will only run 33 spilne and above axles in a straight axle rear end, and only a full spool or welded rear end, prefferebly a full spool, no mini spool, and if it is a 12 bolt chevy rear end then c-clip eliminators are a must. Along with a drive shaft saftey loop. John That's something I've been wanting to comment on - the jnj car is the one that keeps getting cited as the example of why you don't need more than an r200, but it's using a welded diff (still really impressive, no issues there). I'm not convinced that the r200 would be completely bulletproof behind 700hp on the street without the welded spool. I managed to break my Torsen-equipped r200 with about 450whp. It does appear that the Torsen itself gave out, and I've heard that the Quaife is stronger, but is it 200hp stronger? I dunno. Sure it's guaranteed, but that won't make you feel much better the second or third time you have to be towed home . Even though you aren't likely to be able to hook up well enough to pull a wheelie on the street, things like potholes, expansion cracks/bumps and wreak havok with your shock loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Hi, I know I'm a bit late for this topic but here it goes anyways. VLSD's where designed so that most people can drive there RWD cars in the snow, just look at the 240sx, I know you guys in the U.S. had the VLSD as an option but here in Canada all 240sx's had the VLSD cause whe have some pretty ruff winters here + as it was stated before the VLSD need's heat to opperate, that means that one wheel NEED's to spin for a while before it start's grabbing, on top of that, over time, if the diff is abused, the sillicone based fluid inside the unit tend to degrade and loose it's efficiency and it's very hard to fix it, you have to drill a hole to empty it then find something suitable to fill it back then, either weld the hole shut or tap the hole and screw in a plug. I know all of this cause I owned a bunch of 240 SX's and had mutch troubble with these units as the power went up. Just my "late" 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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