Which spoiler works best?

[thehelix112]

Any prejudice against large wings is almost certainly developed in ignorance. The wider, longer (chord), higher, and further back a wing is the more effective it can be, as we all know.

 

BTW, I think I might be wrong about the outside of the vortex travelling fastest. But I think it might be the inside. Anyone confirm? I could just go look it up, but my chair is way too cumfy.

 

Dave

[veritech-z]

I think my prejudice against the wing comes from the fact that my car is a street car primarily, and I don't like having a street car that looks like it's got half an F-1 car glued to the back...Plus, the vast majority of the cars that are equipped with these on the street are tragically slow (no matter how loud they may be...) That said, I fully expect that the most downforce will end up coming from some type of wing like that, that has some adjustability. I know most of the guys involved in the project are racing competitively though, so I don't expect aesthetics to have to play much of a role in this test. Regardless of the wind tunnel outcome, I'll still be planning on a whale tail for the ZZZap. And a g-nose if I can afford it, but probably some kind of early bumper conversion for now.

[Carl Beck]

...snipped.....

BTW, I think I might be wrong about the outside of the vortex travelling fastest. But I think it might be the inside. Anyone confirm? I could just go look it up, but my chair is way too cumfy.

 

Dave

 

HI Dave:

Always ask yourself - "where is the energy source or force". Most of the time that will help you answer your question.

 

Be it a wing tip or hot air - it's at the center, and therefore the highest speed winds...

 

 

FWIW,

Carl B.

[JIM73240Z]

i know i have mentioned it before, but there is a wing that tiger racing is using on their mustangs that make over 500# @ 100mph. (http://www.g-stream.com/ ) i know without a windtunnel that that is more tan any bre spoiler, whale tail, ect. can make. that being said, i do not know how well our cars can handle that extra weight back there. yes it would look ricey, yes i contmplated it, and yes if my car was strictly a track car it would probably make it on at one point or another. i would definatly look into it jon for your car but front end mod will need to be done like a splitter or low budget hd landscape scraper. i am with veritech-z that a whale tail is going on mine. if it works why fight it.

 

jimbo

[speeder]

Any prejudice against large wings is almost certainly developed in ignorance.

Dave

 

Or in one's personal esthetics. Functional does not always equal pretty.

[johnc]

Unfortunately, DE will probably be no more...

 

December 4, 2006 - New shipments to dealers and their customers have been cancelled due to

impending sale of the company. The parent company of Downforce Engineering announced last week

that it intends to sell the assets of DE. We regret the considerable inconvenience that this has caused to

both our dealers and their customers. This decision had nothing to do with the viability of the product line,

which has had a very high level of success at the track and zero negative reports from drivers and crews.

The parent company was simply not committed to the making the investment that would have been

required to meet the considerable challenge of rapid growth. We would like very much to find a suitable

buyer, so that sales can resume prior to the start of the 2007 racing season. The company's assets have

been broken down into groupings or lots, which can be found here. We are currently preparing detailed

descriptions with photos and sample drawings of what is contained in each lot. Please direct all inquiries

regarding the sale to information@g-stream.com.

 

They have (had) a good product. Hopefully Paul Brown buys their product line.

[johnc]

OK, I have to admit it. I put a Big Ugly Ass Wing (BUAW) on a Lotus Elise for a customer. You might have seen in the a SCCA Solo2 Nats coverage in Sports Car and you'll probably see it in a few othe rmagazines soon. I took the main element out of the AMod BBR Special and mounted it on the engine cover of the Elise.

 

 

 

 

 

It actually worked very well, but it isn't pretty.

[A. G. Olphart]

OK, I have to admit it. I put a Big Ugly Ass Wing (BUAW) on a Lotus Elise for a customer. {CLIP}

 

It actually worked very well, but it isn't pretty.

 

 

As usual, John, I can't argue with you. It isn't pretty.

 

 

<>

[JMortensen]

Found some interesting articles on the Mitsu VG project/airtabs/etc:

 

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/A_3058/cms/article.html

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/A_3059/cms/article.html

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/A_3060/cms/article.html

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_3061/article.html

 

 

Yarn aero testing:

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1044/article.html

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1055/article.html

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1065/article.html

[proxlamus©]

Jon you rock for posting those links..

 

thanks

[proxlamus©]

awwa I have to have a subscription..

 

what were the results on the air tabs? success?

[JMortensen]

Subscription? I didn't have a subscription and I read them all. I just opened the 4th link (the 3rd and 4th deal with the airtabs more specifically) and read it just fine...

[proxlamus©]

I must be retarted.. the AeroTab article and the first 3 links open up and show a "preview" of the article.. then ends with

"Click here for online access to the rest of this article"

 

When I click on that here to view the rest of the article it asks for payment like $40 or just $6 for ONLY that article

[JMortensen]

I have to wonder if this is yet another reason to use Firefox instead of IE???

[JMortensen]

Yep, that appears to be it... Microsoft and their "features"...

 

I will say that the magazine is probably worth a subscription. Some of their other articles are right up the Hybrid Z alley...

[proxlamus©]

hurm.. i tried IE and Firefox.. weird.. oh well..

 

damnit I am just going to buy a few and test em out..

 

Oh if you click "print article" version you can see some small pics.. they have yarn testing before and after the VG's and they placed some UNDER the car?!

[haukenes]

Hey all, i was wondering (since this seems to be the difinitive source for spoiler/wing information) if anyone makes a BRE style spoiler for the 280ZX 2+2, or if one oculd just fit the 280Z to the back and somehow avoid the read winshield wiper? I'm not looking for super performance features, just a small mpg increase, and a decrease in gas smell in the back... any suggestions? pictures?

[OlderThanMe]

you will LOSE MPG with a rear wing or spoiler...I had a change of about 1-2mpg when I took my BRE spoiler off...less air resistance.

[thehelix112]

That is not always true OTM. A moderate spoiler on a relatively standard chassis can both reduce drag and increase downforce, as demonstrated by Simon McBeath in his book "Competition Car Aerodynamics". A nascar both reduced drag and increased rear downforce with a rear spoiler.

 

The way this works is the rear spoiler redirects the air upwards off the back of the car which better draws up the air from under the car to fill the large separation region behind the boot.

 

Dave

[OlderThanMe]

I know that my BRE gives a TON of downforce. I should not have made such a blanet statement...forgive me please...

I could feel a difference at 65-70mph. When I removed the spoiler the car was not as planted at speed and got 1-2 better MPG... that was my experience.

the WRX tall spoiler does not have much drag and it is diretly in the flow of the air seperating from the rear windshield...and it helps with downforce without all the drag.

 

For an AutoX car or track day car the BRE rear spoiler will for sure give you downforce but also with a bunch of drag. I imagine the whale tail would have lower drag and just as good or better downforce compared to a BRE spoiler...