Mikelly Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Yes, but then add the weight of those twin turbos, the piping, manifolds, intercoolers, and all other support hardware onto the scale and all the sudden, the true advantage of the LSx platform dimenishes. People often overlook the added weight to a turbo project, claiming the good outweighs the bad. But in some cases, such as the LSx, I believe it doesn't. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 The new GMPP LSX block has enlarged bay-to-bay windage ports in the block, like the LS7 does. An article (Popular Hotrodding?) said that without the ports in the block it wouldn't rev past something like 6000. Once they added the ports it went something like 7200 or more rpm. I'm thinking this may be the problem with oil pushing out of the LS motors. Anyone care to comment? If that's the case, I'd think a stock LS block without the ports could be modified (drill and tap block, add fittings, tubing, etc.) to help wit hthe bay-to-bay breathing issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 I think the oil in the intake is being overstated. From what I have read on LS1tech, it doesn't affect everybody. Only some cars are bothered by it, and it is less common on the later engines vs. the earlier ones. Worst case just take the PCV off and put open breathers on it. The other day I found a nice valley cover with built in K&N filter for $60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 The thing with a twin turbo LSx is it will make 1100whp and 1100ftlbs easily. Its a matter of how much is enough. A mild LS2 block build using the aluminum block would make tons of power and still be light enough to handle well. Those ls2 blocks are good for 1000whp. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 The new LSX block can go to something like 470 cubes in the tall deck form, maybe 511cubes? But the block also weighs 225 lbs in cast iron. They are considering an aluminum version. My Dart Sportsman old style block is 205 lbs. But the LSX iron block is made to go to 2000hp in drag use. I presume an aluminum LSX block would be all anyone would need in a Z besides a full pro mod car, IMO. A few opinions, maybe rules of thumb? : I do think Dragon and Mike hit something here - an engine is an engine. With a decent foundation (block) you can make real high power per cube, whether winding it up or boosting it. A strong block will weigh more than a weak one - hardly any of the OEs make weak blocks for their performance engines. These things are CADded out for strength, weight, NVH optimization reasons. If it's capable of a lot higher power than in stock form, then it was developed with racing in mind, most likely. Look at the Supra engines, the DSM engine, etc. So if you want to go beyond what the OE envisioned for ultimate power out of a block, you will be looking for bandaids (girdles, etc.) or an aftermarket or racing OE block. Or add a boost system (turbo or blower) and you add weight, and hope that the block can withstand it too. It does seem many turbo engine blocks can handle quite a bit more than stock boost and power levels. Moreso than the NA block offerings from the OEs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crispy Chicken Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 The thing with a twin turbo LSx is it will make 1100whp and 1100ftlbs easily. Its a matter of how much is enough. A mild LS2 block build using the aluminum block would make tons of power and still be light enough to handle well. Those ls2 blocks are good for 1000whp. Justin When I was at the world street nationals in OCT. I took some pictures of this vette. They were using a aluminum Ls2 block. They claimed to be running around 1700-1800+ hp on that block. One guy said 1300 but I think he was messing around. I'm not really sure what to believe. I can't remember if they were running high 6's or 7's. I do remember that car was moving pretty good... I wonder how much power the aluminum LS blocks can support before having problems?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New2TheZ2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 OKay, I have been pricing things too. I am looking at the LS1. I found a local shop, chop shop if you will (legal by the way) I can get a motor and the electronics for $1200 out the door. Is this a good price and (I only have basic mechanic knowledge never done major motor work) is the swap long and hard or since I have a bud with a shop, lift, puller, stand and all tools can it be done simple? LOL right.... I have a 3 to 4 out of five in mechanical experiance, so I am looking at taking alot on. LOL boy am I dumb. I just want a LS1 not looking to upgrade just want to swap and drive. OOps, I have the 75 280z L28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 NEW2TheZ06, you might want to post over in the Chevy V8 section instead. That's not a bad price and with the Johns cars mounts, installing it won't be that hard... Just understand that you'll need specific exhaust manifolds, a ned custom drive shaft and exhaust system, and you'll also need to re-route the air filter system and te-do your radiator and fan cooling... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 The thing with a twin turbo LSx is it will make 1100whp and 1100ftlbs easily. Its a matter of how much is enough. A mild LS2 block build using the aluminum block would make tons of power and still be light enough to handle well. Those ls2 blocks are good for 1000whp. Justin I guess it boils down to what you want to do with the car... If you're drag racing then that 1100HP sounds real good. If you plan to roadcourse that thing, You'll not use more than 450-500 HP at the max. Every High HP supra or other modded car Ive seen go to track days has to dial back the boost just to get around the track without suffering traction... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I think the oil in the intake is being overstated. From what I have read on LS1tech, it doesn't affect everybody. Only some cars are bothered by it, and it is less common on the later engines vs. the earlier ones. Worst case just take the PCV off and put open breathers on it. The other day I found a nice valley cover with built in K&N filter for $60. I'd be careful about who you get good info from on LS1Tech.com... some of those guys are the best and most knowledgable (Look for Milkman, He's by far the best when it comes to LS1 info and was the guy that did the tuning on my vette and will tune the holley system in my Z - His name is Jeff Creech). Others are not so knowledgable and pass on tons of bad info. The guys in the roadrace section of Corvetteforum are much more consistant with their info, which is why I gave up on LS1Tech.com. And I've got jeff's shop, cell and home numbers, so I just ring him when I need guidance on something LS1 related. To me, and this is JUST my opinion, but to me, oil getting into the intake runners and getting anywhere near the fuel or sparkplugs is a bad thing. That's just me. Now, I'm just one guy, and many other folks may have different experiences, and maybe at the drag strip it isn't as bit a deal, but at EVERY SINGLE road course event I've been to, the LS1/6/2 guys have had oil DRIPPING OUT OF the throttle body by the afternoon sessions every day. Some guys have installed catch cans with steel wool inside them to assist in soaking the oil up, and they just drain them between runs. But when you see these guys draing well over a couple ounces of oil in between runs, it makes you wonder how much is getting into the combustion chamber... BUt that's just me... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 My oldest stepson informed us yesterday that he's selling his RB25. I have no idea what's up, or if he has just gotten fed up with it or the lack of support, but this JUST CAME together...He just sold eht 240SX chassis and all the parts and is gonna put the RB25 on ebay. This is kind of a let down to me, because I was hoping he'd finish it and have a very unique ride... Expect to see yet another RB25 w/tranny and parts on ebay soon... I just bought him those new bearings for crimmus too! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 having started with alot of l28 turbo parts led me dowm the turbo l28 path.but if i built another z it would be v8-there is no replacment for instant tire frying torque.its much easier to get the jump on a car with torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedragon436 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I have been running this same argument trying to figure out what avenue I want to go with my Z. I am actually thinking the LSx swap would be cheaer in the long run, as it starts off with about 300+hp out of the box. Now one other thing that I have been running in my head that makes the LSx swap a better option is that parts as well as upgrades are available everywhere you go, now the RB parts are only going to be available online and from overseas....you can't just go down to your local Nissan dealer and order many parts for your RB engine.... but that is just my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I have been running this same argument trying to figure out what avenue I want to go with my Z. I am actually thinking the LSx swap would be cheaer in the long run, as it starts off with about 300+hp out of the box. Now one other thing that I have been running in my head that makes the LSx swap a better option is that parts as well as upgrades are available everywhere you go, now the RB parts are only going to be available online and from overseas....you can't just go down to your local Nissan dealer and order many parts for your RB engine.... but that is just my opinion... YOu just hit on the big advantage of the LSx motor... It's the modern day version of the original SBC... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedragon436 Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 It is the modern version of the SBC, and like I said there are parts like dime a dozen and can be found anywhere for the LSx... Now granted the RB is a higher revving engine, but I would still much rather run the LSx in the long run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getoffmyinternet Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Literally the only reason to me for going RB and not LS1 is that you want to stick to the same breed. Unfortunately for my wallet and my time, I am that way. LS1 could be considered cheating, but if it's horsepower you're after, I honestly doubt the RB26 beats the LS1 in any form of comparison. Other than just wanting an rb in your gut, a chevy v8 has no downside, as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 "They fuel and air being ingested into the engine do not look at the brand on the valve cover when combining and igniting to make torque and power." To think that one brand has a corner on making that much better of an engine than the next one is disingenuous. Brand loyalty makes about as much sense to me as dating only blonds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 you can't just go down to your local Nissan dealer and order many parts for your RB engine.... I shall wholly, genuinely, and kindly refute that statement. That is not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Literally the only reason to me for going RB and not LS1 is that you want to stick to the same breed. Unfortunately for my wallet and my time, I am that way. LS1 could be considered cheating, but if it's horsepower you're after, I honestly doubt the RB26 beats the LS1 in any form of comparison. Other than just wanting an rb in your gut, a chevy v8 has no downside, as far as I know. every engine has its ups and downs, even the LS1 i'm sure. I agree with your statement about the breed thing, as well as keeping it inline 6. I just want to update the car with "like" parts... which is why I'm not turboing my car either. And I'll also agree with you that the LS1 is indefinitely a better way to go for immediate and ultimate power, comparing both side by side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getoffmyinternet Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I've never really heard of quite literally going with like parts and not going turbo for that reason, but pushing for na power is commendable either way. Some people just don't like the idea of a turbo because it's deemed "unnatural" and they want to get "real natural muscle," which would count out nos too. Of course most of those people still go to 110 leaded on drags. I don't care too much for nos myself because the challenge I make for myself if is to get as much out of the fuel I have without just increasing the potential of the fuel itself. As in what power can you get daily driving and pumping, not refilling a bottle and and ice chest. I would think the biggest downside of the ls1 would be initial cost. But I'm not sure how valid the proposed lightweight claims are on it either. Has an American company ever made a lightweight engine, or trans, for that matter? I thought the thing that made the block so reliable was how stout it is built. My guess is any difference in the two motors' weight is negligible. The real difference would probably be the difference in distribution of that weight, since I hear that the ls1 would sit much farther back than the rb26 in the bay. Yes, the straight six is pretty nice, but for me at this point it isn't much of a bargaining chip other than perhaps the money saved versus buying two of everything, because I would think it much less of an obstacle to double your parts than figure out all this nasty wiring, which is still mostly kicking my ass I must admit. I plan on taking pictures of all my plugs and asking for help and then posting them with their pin assignments and what each wire does and which can be cut off because it will take an extra few hours for me but save someone else an extra few weeks. In retrospect, if I were unlimited to the breed of engine, I would still have to go big or go home and would dream of the 7 liter. I don't know if the ls7 would be worth the price tag though by any means, but an l71 or bigger ls6 would solve the wiring problem at the cost of 100hp and a few mpg or so. If anyone has one of those lying around that they don't need you let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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