phantaz Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 How did this thread just die? Elves are real!!! Beautiful BMW Ummm anyone else notice how many front wheels the Elves need to steer with?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantaz Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 This is my other car, Lancia Delta HF Integrale.[ATTACH]3132[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]3133[/ATTACH] Is this the AWD version??? not really related but its my favoraite car to drive on Forza 2 for the xbox 360 =0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 As a classic car magazine journalist I'm more than happy to see a thread like this on HybridZ! Some Z owners tend to forget that there is a whole world of great sportscars out there. I hate to say that, but the Z isn't THE sportscar of the 70's. There is no single car that can be pointed out as THE best one, simply because of different, conditions, locations, race series and regulations they were raced in. I guess this is where the Alfa discussion started: bjhines' statements are BOLD, considering Alfa's numerous victories in European Touring Car Championships in Europe (or what they had been in the 60s and 70s) and the fact that competition was just as serious as it is today. Ford, Alfa, BMW, Jaguar, and even manufacturers like Rover fought hard for the win, and Alfa must be credited for some of the most exciting racing cars of the period. With proper preparation and correct technical know-how, it is possible to race ANY Alfa with good results. That would explain their popularity in historic racing today... I'm not trying to dig the reputation of the Z, which is a great sports car for the value, but mocking the Alfa like this can't really be justified. I just don't like the way that some One-Marque-Purists look at other cars. In my country, classic Jags are becoming so plentiful that owners of much less expensive cars tend to look down on them (isn't this called envy?) and say that there is no point in buying and building such a car if it gets beaten by a 124 Spider. So what? It depends what you build your car for - most of the Jag owners do it for the fun of it... It's the same with Alfas - they are loved so much because of their character, not the times they make on the racetrack. Back to the topic: my dad recently restored a 1988 TVR S1. Even tough the car gives us a lot of trouble to maintain it in driveable condition, it's so fun I whish it was mine! It's tricky to drive in the twisties, but it gives me so much satisfaction whenever I drive it that the only car that could match it in "smile-giving" is my Z. It may not be very fast (it has a 2,8 Ford Cologne V6 engine, 150 dyno-certified HP), but the way it is built makes it feel almost like a prototype. It rattles, squeaks and spits on every bump (especially during "spirited" driving), but this is a part of its character. I love it. This is the car as of today. It is painted in factory TVR blue. The interior was completely reworked, but this is the part of the car I really don't like. I hope that my dad will let me replace the crappy leather with some proper materials, like aluminum panels painted flat black and uncomplicated black upholstery... I'm trying to find Cosworth YBT-powered S-series racecar pictures from the 80's, but I don't know where to search... There aren't many of these pictures around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Well said Gareth. It was almost a year ago when I said that. I really tried to view the Alfas with Rose colored glasses this year at the track. There was one Alfa at Roebling Road that absolutely kicked butt. But, It was completely gutted and highly modified in every way. Yes it was fast, but it was also a highly strug race car that could be overtaken by stock engined Z-cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 HybridZ member Dan Baldwin doing a time trial at NHIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Is this the AWD version??? not really related but its my favoraite car to drive on Forza 2 for the xbox 360 =0) Yes this is AWD and have about 350hp and 450Nm.. Back in the late 80's to early 90's Lancia won 6 Rally VM championship in a row making it the most succesful rally car of all time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 3 liter Ferrari 312P Barquetta at Nurburgring I want to work on this team: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschiltz Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Old school auto-x vid I found linked from my local SCCA site http://www.sbrscca.org/photos/TandC_Gymkhana.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatbackz Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 sorry i had to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 mmmm the 356's look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datman Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 great cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carguynick Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlalomz Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 I took this one at Laguna Seca around 1975. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Carguynick; got any more shots of those zxs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 ...................................................... I think you are comparing the S30-series Z ( first released for sale to the general public in the last weeks of 1969 ) to cars that were - essentially - originally designed anything up to twenty years before that. You are not really comparing like-for-like. The Z had the benefit of being designed and productionised at a golden time; a nice light unibody and some relatively good and up-to-date suspension design, but without the constrictions of safety legislation that came a few years later or the perceived need for 'Luxury' appointments. Design Concession ( with cost-cutting being hugely influential on the design ) left us with a great base to work with. To compare that with cart-sprung, ladder-chassised products from Europe - produced in countries effectively still recovering from wartime devastation even into the 1960s - is fairly pointless I think. That's my feeling anyway. I'm with BJ Hines on this, essentially the S30 was a superior design at a budget price. Just as importantly it was reliable, easy to work on and durable, something it is still today and certainly something Euro cars in general were not. Today it can still be made to go fast and on a comparable footing compete with Euro cars originally costing much more. As to the soundness of the basic design, just look at the S30's featured in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Seeing I'm on a Euro car bash, here is a pic of the old 260Z about to pass that Ferrari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carguynick Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Carguynick; got any more shots of those zxs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 (drool) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I'm with BJ Hines on this, essentially the S30 was a superior design at a budget price. Just as importantly it was reliable, easy to work on and durable, something it is still today and certainly something Euro cars in general were not. Today it can still be made to go fast and on a comparable footing compete with Euro cars originally costing much more. As to the soundness of the basic design, just look at the S30's featured in this forum. You make it sound as though I don't think the S30-series design and engineering was good (???). Of course it was good, and in some markets it was deliberately sold at an artificially low price that made it very attractive to buyers - so it sold in great numbers. But to just lump the vast majority of "Euro cars" into one group, and to write them off without any subjective discussion is absurd. Back around the fourth page of this thread, bjhines made this post: But.. the Alfa guys bear the brunt of many jokes at our driver's meetings... They are slow cars... In ANY FORM.... race street or hybridized... they are unreliable' date=' hard to find parts for.. and they tend to loose a lot of parts and fluids on track... You have to keep in mind that the 240Zs absolutely CRUSHED damn near ANYTHING offered before 1970... It always amuses me when I come up behind a historic, race-built Alfa smelling like race gas and synthetic oil... and then I overtake it so fast I barely avoid clipping it... I have little interest in historic racing prior to 1970... the cars are often out of reach price wise... and they are just about as fast as a mid 1980s Ford Fiesta... I would put a 1995 Toyota Camry WAGON up against most of the historics and bet against the historics... even a low end minivan could beat 90% of those cars on track... Even the lovely looking Jaguar race cars in this thread are piss poor race cars... they have a lot of power.. top speed is IMPRESSIVE... but they DONT TURN!!! honestly they don't even accelerate very quickly.. they just have a 200MPH top speed... if they have a couple of miles in a staight line... they can break 200MPH...[/quote'] And just to emphasise the kind of hyperbole that I don't agree with, I'll re-quote the following: [b'] You have to keep in mind that the 240Zs absolutely CRUSHED damn near ANYTHING offered before 1970... [/b] No personal disrespect to bjhines intended, but that statement just looks silly. Maybe he's just talking about a 'Bang-For-Buck' situation regarding showroom-fresh cars when they were new, but that's not the only way it reads. This talk of "superior design" is also pretty silly. Superior on what terms? This is like one of those "which is the best" questions which does not have the single answer that it demands and expects. I'm always deeply suspicious of anybody who makes sweeping generalisations about "other cars" whilst talking about their own as though it is the second coming of Jesus. Reality is usually a lot more complicated ( and interesting! ) than that. Alan T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCZ Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Beautiful day for some SVRA Vintage racing at Virginia Intl Raceway: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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