Weight and Towing Questions?

[RedFive]

Grrr, I'm having trouble finding consistent numbers.

 

I've got an '88 Jeep Cherokee and a '76 280z. I want to tow the Z to CA. I'd like to put it on a flatbed, but my hitch only supports 5000lbs. Uhaul says their flatbed weighs 2000lbs empty, but can carry a 4000lb car.

 

That's fine and dandy, I'm sure I will come under 5000lbs with the Z on there. But by how much? I keep finding websites with different numbers on how much my Z weighs. Not to mention that it has no bumpers, hatch, or windshield.

 

I'd like to be able to compare this to when I towed my brother's '88 Cherokee to CA with Uhaul's 650lb tow dolly. Again, I can't seem to find consistent curb weights for his Jeep.

 

....?

[Phantom]

I just towed my 77 280Z from Dallas, TX to Yakima, WA behind my suburban on a U-haul car trailer. My 280 is a fatty and weighs in at exactly 3,000 lbs. When it was original it weighed 2,800 lbs even. Both weights were verified on certified truck scales. As long as your not going up/down any steep mountain grades like I-70 through Colorado you should be fine.

[280Zone]

Uhaul figures it for you. They ask you what car you are using for towing and what car you are towing and they will look it up and decide for you. It is really a comparrison between the two vehicles. My truck has a "towing capacity" of 5000 lbs but they would not rent me a car dolly to tow a Z due to the weight of my truck.

[RedFive]

Uhaul adds in a massive factor of safety. I'm an engineer, I don't need them to do that for me. When I towed my brother's Jeep with my Jeep, by their calculations, they wouldn't have even let me use a tow dolly. So I had to lie and told them I was towing an Alfa Romeo. But somehow I managed to get from AZ to CA without a problem. I'm simply I'm interested in the weight so I can decide for myself if I can or cannot tow it.

 

Why the fuss though? Because I'd rather not have to put the Z on a dolly. I'm sure you guys can all appreciate that.

 

Thanks Phantom, I guess I'll come in under my Jeep's limitations. What made your Z weigh more? V8?

[Tony D]

Like 280Zone says, will U-Haul even LET you tow their auto-transport behind your Cherokee? Every time I went in there, it was like I needed to have a 3/4 or 1-Ton pickup to tow a vehicle. Like you said, they get a bit litigation crazy on the "safety factor". And their contract now states the plate numbers of the vehicles towing and towed, they will viod their contract and hang your a** out if anyting happens outside the terms of their stated towed and towing vehicles.

 

The question is what kind of quote are you getting from them? Does the 280 you are towing have plates, and a good set of tires? I have personally towed cross country using the Valley Tow-Bar. It's small enough to fit under the cross box tool carrier in my truck, so I have it, and the mickey mouse lights with me wherever I go---in case I run across a good find and have to take it home with me! LOL Even without plates, towing INTO California without plates is not a problem as long as you say you will be plating it as you are delivering it into the state. Leaving is another story, but then a "one trip permit" is cheap in that case, and easily had at any DMV.

 

The towbar only costs around $125 at a Pep Boys, and the fasteners they have fit right in the bumper strut holes of the 260/280/280ZX... That towbar has paid itself back in fees I can't say how many times over. I have lent it out to people two times to tow vehicles back from CA to wherever they were (Kentucky and Maryland, actually) and the thing is small enough to be UPS'ed back to me when they are done. You can UPS it ahead to someplace to pick up a vehicle with it.

 

Consider the costs... $125 for the Towbar, $40 for a set of lights and some safety chains...maybe a set of $99 Pep-Boys Skins for the 280 if you are suspect on the tires making the trip. If U-Haul suggests the cost to be near that total of around $280...you may find it's cheaper to BUY than RENT! And you KNOW you will use that towbar in the future!!!

 

Just another area of consideration. I have actually towed my 240 with my Fairlady Z using this towbar!!! NO WAY would U-Haul condone that, but you know the FMVSS requires a braking capability of 2.5X, so as long as you are flat-towing like or lighter, there should be no problems.

 

My only caveat is that towing an S30 without an engine in it may cause some undue tire wear. We went through a tire (though this is also a bit due to the alignment being off, and we just moved the tie rod to 'stop the squealing tire' )when we towed it from El Paso to Phoenix. Towing them light in the front end may not be advisable. But for a full, together car, I'd not hesitate to flat-tow it. Get a set of cheap skins or used tires (if needed), and tow away!

 

Good Luck!

[RedFive]

It's a good idea Tony, but they're only charging me around $100. My buddy is going to help me pickup the trailer from Uhaul with his F150. I think I'm set.

 

But I'm still questioning the weight. I've read 2800 pounds like Phantom said, but I found on another site that the '76 280z weighs different than the '77 and '78 years.

 

...?

[twoeightythreez]

TonyD,

Are you saying the towbar is still available and fits right to the bumper brackets of a 280?

I am considering ways to tow my Z back to PA in a few months (with a Q45) and that option might actually be the viable one. (Though I think the Q would need a custom hitch as the ones being sold are only 1500lb rated or so)

I take it I could safely flat tow it as long as I disconnected the driveshaft.

[twoeightythreez]

I'm currently stationed on the Nimitz in San Diego.

[twoeightythreez]

Like 280Zone says, will U-Haul even LET you tow their auto-transport behind your Cherokee? Every time I went in there, it was like I needed to have a 3/4 or 1-Ton pickup to tow a vehicle.

I agree, tony, the last time I went into a U-haul they wouldn't even rent me a DOLLY unless I had a full-size pickup.

[Mikelly]

Keep in mind too that those Jeep Cherokees had issues with eating main and rod bearings due to excessive tow weights. Had a friend back in the early 90s thru 2001 who was doing an average of one Jeep Cherokee tranny or crank kit on those things for the locals who towed boats to the Potomac river.

 

Might plan to go nice and slow, ad an engine and tranny oil cooler and be prepared for a vehicle upgrade down the road.

Mike

[RedFive]

Uhaul will "let" me tow the Z with a dolly. I just don't want to do that if I don't have to.

 

Like I said, they gave me a dolly a couple years ago, I just didn't tell them I was putting another Jeep on it. This following picture is something I see a lot with the Jeep guys:

 

 

[Sumo]

Uhaul will "let" me tow the Z with a dolly. I just don't want to do that if I don't have to.

No matter how desperate you get don't use a tow dolly! I towed my brothers 82 280ZX because he didn't want to spend for the full trailer and he ended up with front end problems which cost him a few bucks. The 1600 miles from L.A. to Dallas with that front end going backwards did do some damage.

[johnc]

Tell them you're towing a vintage Lola Formula Ford race car that you're going to restore. Never registered (its a race car) and it weighs 980 lbs. without engine.

[Tony D]

TonyD,

Are you saying the towbar is still available and fits right to the bumper brackets of a 280?

I am considering ways to tow my Z back to PA in a few months (with a Q45) and that option might actually be the viable one. (Though I think the Q would need a custom hitch as the ones being sold are only 1500lb rated or so)

I take it I could safely flat tow it as long as I disconnected the driveshaft.

 

Absolutely, the bars are sold at Pep Boys, Kragen, and Auto Zone. I bought mine at Pep Boys. By custom hitch, I guess you never saw my 75 Fairlady---I couldn't find anything to fit, so I fabbed a nice towing apparatus out of 1/4" plate and 2" .125" wall box channel and a Class III receiver I bought from a local towing supply house. I am probably the only guy on the face of the planet with a Class 3 Receiver on the back of an S30. The Q should flat-tow it just fine, I just wouldn't put the car in overdrive at all. Weight ratings are subjective. Get a bigger hitch then you need. If nothing else it's something nice to knock you shin on one morning half awake in stumbling around the garage looking for that first morning beer...

 

Basically, you remove the front bumper, throw it in the back. Then, depending on the model of towbar you have, either bolt it up straight to the exposed bumper struts, or turn the things 45 degrees, and then bolt them up. If you PM me an e-mail I can send you photos of what several vehicles look like with the towbar attached. I think I've got photos of 260, 280, and 280ZX's currently on the computer external drive. It's a pretty sweet way to do the bolt up. If you get spunky, and get a 28-32" piece of 3" C-Channel, you can permanently mount your "U" Clevises from the Towbar to it, and then just drill whatever bolt pattern you want to attach it to a 240, as well as whatever else you may want to hook it to. I have seen people take the factory tiedowns up front completely off the frame, and have the "U" Piece fabbed up, so they can easily hook up the towbar without any fuss of removing the bumper---all depends on the time you have available before you have to tow.

 

No matter how desperate you get don't use a tow dolly! I towed my brothers 82 280ZX because he didn't want to spend for the full trailer and he ended up with front end problems which cost him a few bucks. The 1600 miles from L.A. to Dallas with that front end going backwards did do some damage.

 

Er, using a tow dolly is usually done with the FRONT wheels on the dolly, and the rear end tracking along just fine behind. I have seen people back the car onto the dolly and always wondered why. Unless you do something seriously wrong, towing a tow dolly should do anything to the front end, it adds no stresses other than what normally would be associated with driving the vehicle. If there was damage, chances are good it wasn't from the Tow Dolly.

 

I towed many vehicles with a Tow Dolly, but for the effort the Flat-Towing is just as easy and you don't need someone to help you push the damn thing up on the dolly!

 

 

As to the issue of what the thing weighs, my 1975 Fairlady Z 2/2 wieghed in at 2695# with me in it (330#), so that should be a close approximation of a US-Specification Coupe. If I recall, that is what the 280 Guys were weighing in at the track that day. Tow rating of the vehicle is dictated by the LCD. That would be the slackjawed moron towing his life's belongings from here to there in an overloaded "Grapes of Wrath" scenario through winding mountians with things bungeed to the sides of the towed vehicle. The Nissan Frontier is rated at 3500 with a Stick, and 5000 with an Automatic. Why? Same engine, and same differential? Because some Goobe decided to tow up the Palm Springs Grade with a 5000# load in FIFTH (overdrive) and smoked his clutch at 51,000 miles and then screamed holy hell with the warranty department and then litigated... Hence now you will get a rating of 3500# on a Stick. And the admonition not to tow in overdrive with the Automatic.

 

Take the rating with a grain of salt. Take it easy when you tow, USE THE PROPER GEAR GOING UP AND DOWN HILLS, and chances are you will easily tow what you need. Presonally with the cost of utility trailers getting below the $1000 mark, it becomes very hard to justify not buying one just for the times putting all the wheels up off the ground would be easier than flat-towing (like recovering wrecks, half-cuts, or big parts...).

[RedFive]

Justification for not buying one is easy right now. I have no place to put it, and since I will soon be an officer in the Marine Corps, I don't forsee having anyplace to put it in the next couple of years while I'm still in training.

[Sumo]

I have seen people back the car onto the dolly and always wondered why.

.

 

I guess you already know that you usually don't tow a stickshift with the drive wheels on the ground even if it's in neutral. Unless of course you take off the driveshaft which a lot off people don't do. My point was to save you wear and tear, it's better to put the car on a transporter instead of a dolly especially on long distance unless it's just around town. I did tow a 78 Trans Am once using a towbar but i only did it for 10 miles.

[MrFancypants]

5000 lb (Class III) is fine for a Z and a Uhaul trailer. I just did it a month ago. Their trailers are built to withstand an atomic blast, but they drive nice and stable.

 

Dont use a dolly. The full trailer is worth the extra money.

 

 

 

- Greg -

[twoeightythreez]

TonyD,

Thanks for all the information! I will look into that when we pull in from our pre-deployment exercises. I think I want to bolt to more than just the bumper struts, though (I pushed them in and ran a bolt through the side so the bumper is tucked a bit closer to the body)

I was looking into a trailer but I can always get one of those back in PA in a few months, getting one now is not a smart idea considering I could ship the car for a bit over $1000.

I'm trying to do it for less than $500, which the towbar and custom hitch (for the Q45) can do.

I was planning on disconnecting the Z's driveshaft if I do it this way.

The Q has 175K miles on it but I installed a transmission cooler.

I know the whole thing about subjective weight and why the capacities are so low for vehicles. I had a 1997 nissan pickup that I towed a 4400lb Buick sportwagon behind, on a 600lb dolly.

It was a 4cyl stick rated to 3500lb (regular cab 4x2, 2900lb truck!)

This was back in PA, lots of hills, and I had no problem at all.

Yes, I had to ease out from stops,(to protect the clutch) but the engine (KA24E) didn't struggle, not a bit. All the full-size drivers were looking at it with wide eyes, the little truck that could.

OF course, I guess that's just a matter of opinion, most of the people that told me to get a "real" truck had a "real" truck that hauled less than I've already hauled in my Z car. (I always told them I didn't NEED a real truck, and neither did they)

I miss that truck.

[twoeightythreez]

Originally Posted by Tony D

I have seen people back the car onto the dolly and always wondered why.

.

Me too.

Especially when the dolly is designed to turn the front wheels when you turn, so the fenders of the dolly don't hit the car.

 

If you think it's bad to tow a stickshift on the drive wheels in neutral, it's even worse with an auto. (look in any nissan owner's manual, which recommends to tow with drive wheels off the ground, but if you have to have them on the ground, disconnect the driveshaft, and if you can't do that, to limit towing speed WITH A STICK to 50mph and 50mi, and and AUTO to 30mph and 20mi)

The only thing that you really can't do with a dolly that you can do with a trailer is back up. (Little chuckles for all who have tried to...it sux)

[Tony D]

I guess you already know that you usually don't tow a stickshift with the drive wheels on the ground even if it's in neutral. Unless of course you take off the driveshaft which a lot off people don't do. My point was to save you wear and tear, it's better to put the car on a transporter instead of a dolly especially on long distance unless it's just around town. I did tow a 78 Trans Am once using a towbar but i only did it for 10 miles.

 

I've (as well as several others) towed transcontinental with that towbar flat towing a Z without any issues of transmission damage. The only vehicle which I remove the driveshaft is an Automatic. Backing a standard shift car onto a tow dolly is a bit overkill, and when it's on the dolly, you do have plenty of clearance to remove the driveshaft from the pumpkin, so no harm no foul there.

I simply start the car at every other gasoline stop, start the car, and let the engine churn up the tranny to re-oil everything inside.

 

And if you knew how fast I towed my 73Z back from the Denver Convetion, you would realize the 35mph maximum speed for towing is also a bunch of lawyerbabble covering liability in our wonderful litigious society!