eec564 Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Lucky for us 240/260/280Z/ZXs aren't even OBD, much less OBD2. The 'Something Wrong' light on my dash dosen't even have anything to do with the EFI system. While a MAP-based EFI system may work a bit better, the Bosch L-Jetronic is very simple and easy to work on/troubleshoot. I'm not that surprised to hear you're having problems with CAN systems. It isn't a well-defined standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 There is a loophole in the California smog regulations that allows for diesel swaps in pre-75 cars.When E85 is in CA I am converting. Air Quality Standards: Light and Medium-Duty Vehicles 28113. (a) Every light-duty and medium-duty motor vehicle operated for compensation to transport persons in an air quality management district or air pollution control district, which does not meet all applicable state ambient air quality standards, shall be a low-emission vehicle, as defined by regulation of the State Air Resources Board. If the vehicle is capable of operating on more than one fuel, it shall be operated within any nonattainment area to the maximum extent practicable either on the designated clean fuel on which the low-emission vehicle was certified or on any other fuel designated by the State Air Resources Board as a substitute fuel for the designated clean fuel. Any air quality management district or air pollution control district may adopt regulations for the enforcement of this section which are consistent with regulations of the State Air Resources Board. ( As used in this section, "motor vehicle operated for compensation to transport persons" includes a taxi cab, bus, airport shuttle vehicle, transit authority or transit district vehicle, or a vehicle owned by a private entity providing transit service under contract with a transit district or transportation authority. © As used in this section, "light-duty" has the same meaning as defined in Section 39035 of the Health and Safety Code. (d) As used in this section, "medium-duty" has the same meaning as defined in Section 39037.5 of the Health and Safety Code. (e) This section applies to all new light-duty motor vehicles purchased on or after January 1, 1997, and to all new medium-duty vehicles purchased on or after January 1, 1998. Added Ch. 496, Stats. 1991. Effective January 1, 1992. I obtained this information from the California DMV website: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does my vehicle qualify for a smog exemption? Smog inspections are required unless your vehicle is: Hybrid 1975 year model or older Diesel powered Electric Natural gas powered and has a Gross Vehicle Weight rating of 14,001 lbs. or more. Motorcycle Trailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I'm not sure what you're getting at with the last post. The section of the CVC you posted involved veehicles used for hire, not privately owned personal transport. E85 IS available in California, you have to look for it. Any vehicle can be converted to any fuel and can qualify for an exemption. Basically Hybrid and Diesel are your only options. The CNG option is viable, because there is so many places to get fuel now, and passing emissions for the vehicle on CNG is very easy it's a very clean burning fuel. Of course, if you convert a 75 and earlier vehicle to CNG, you need not smog it, and are entitled to apply for the "Solo Carpool" stickers! CNG lets you in the carpool lane, alone. Big fun with the CHP! Gotta love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eec564 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 My only doubt in converting a Z to diesel is that I belive one of the rules for the engine swap certification is to use a CLEANER burning engine, or an engine that was offered in same vehicle. Unless you're running some very specific modern equiptment, and have a high GVW, diesel is a dirty alternative. And I have seen E85 around the Bay Area, especially in the North Bay, but I don't have a high enough compression engine to make good use of it. E85 isn't always a bad thing, you just need an engine specifically designed for it. It's the flex fuel vehicles that have a lot of compromise and sacrafice a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 eec-e85 can be used for performance.you need some kind of programmable efi system,bigger injectors,and a fuel system that wont corrode from the e85.no aluminum-would need a coated tank,special fuel pump,stainless or nylon coated lines.new fuel pump for flex-fuel cars = +$800 .plus its not as efficient on fuel mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eec564 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Oh yea, I'm not saying it couldn't be used practically, and produce good power. It's just an engine designed to take advantage of it couldn't be used with regular gasoline. E85 is very high octane, yet contains less chemical energy power pound, so high compression engines are used to make up for it and get back most of the lost MPG. 14+ to 1 would be mighty tough to run regular unleaded on. Only thing I can think of is EXTREMELY varriable valve timing, to alter the compression drastically. But you're very right about having to change nearly every part in the fuel system to handle E85. I'm not sure it would like aluminum heads and blocks either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 You guys talking about bio fuel? Is that what it takes to convert, or run on ether? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eec564 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 No, E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. But a diesel Z running on bio would be fun too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatMan Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 ...snip... But a diesel Z running on bio would be fun too. I can just smell the french fry fumes in my cab now....It must be lunch time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I'm not sure what you're getting at with the last post. The section of the CVC you posted involved veehicles used for hire, not privately owned personal transport. E85 IS available in California, you have to look for it. Any vehicle can be converted to any fuel and can qualify for an exemption. Basically Hybrid and Diesel are your only options. The CNG option is viable, because there is so many places to get fuel now, and passing emissions for the vehicle on CNG is very easy it's a very clean burning fuel. Of course, if you convert a 75 and earlier vehicle to CNG, you need not smog it, and are entitled to apply for the "Solo Carpool" stickers! CNG lets you in the carpool lane, alone. Big fun with the CHP! Gotta love it! What I was trying to say was that there is already "SOME" CVC pertaining to the use of ethanol and that SEMA is working towards making all pre 1975 cars runnings E85 like those that are pre 64.E85 may be avalable in your area of California, but not until the end of this year in mine.And a diesel swap in a pre 75 does make the car smog excempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I'm missing the part in there where E85 makes a vehicle smog exempt. From my understanding, most E85 vehicles are 'multi-fuel' and those are not eligible for breaks like carpool lane access, or other dispensations. Also, in reference to eec564s comment on 'swapping to a cleaner engine' this is totally untrue, and is nowhere in the CVC. The reqauirements are that you must swap from a comparable year vehicle, or newer, and no cross-swaps (from a truck to a car, for instance). The Diesel was offered in 1983, and is a legal swap into any L-Engined Car as the Maxima was type certified in the USA as either an L24 Gasoline Powered vehicle, or a Diesel. This engine-type certification makes it easy to justify the swap without too much ado. But that being said, you can swap a 350 Chevy from an 83 Camaro into an 83 Z without any requirement to retrofit EFI to the Carburettor system on the Chevy...so that should tell you something about 'cleaner engines' only being legal for swaps. You can put just about anything you want into anything else. Just as long as all original smog equipment remains in place and functional, and the tailpipe tests clean you get your sticker at the referee's station and you are tested to that specification henceforth. CNG is available in Tulare... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eec564 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 It's stuff like this that made me think that swapped engines need to emit less smog: Engine Replacement and Rebuilding Guidelines Certification Standards Make sure the engine and emission control configuration on exhaust - controlled vehicles are certified to the year of the vehicle or newer, and to the same or a more stringent new vehicle certification standard. As found here http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage.asp?Body=/geninfo/publications/Engine_Change_Guidelines-Jan_1994.htm This may not actually be enforceable, as there's a good chance it's not written into law, but only tentative policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesd Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Tony, I believe the 'spirit' of the diesel swap, if you will, is to not have to get the smog checks from then on. Legal ? Certainly not if you are hot rodding around in Cali. and a cop pulls you over, he may ask to pop the hood, to see if it has a modified engine. If at that time you have a 'gasser' installed you are in *big* trouble. What's the fine for tampering with smog here in Cali. anyways, wasn't it up to $25,000 ? I'm a bit worried about the new law that lets them take away your car and crush it, if caught 'street racing'. I wonder how much that law has been used ? -Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'm a bit worried about the new law that lets them take away your car and crush it, if caught 'street racing'. I wonder how much that law has been used ? -Les Is this really a law now in California??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesd Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yes. I'm not sure what the details are, but they can do that here. A bunch of kids were getting killed a couple of years ago, so along came this law. Maybe it is regional. I'm in So. CA. Is this really a law now in California??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The E85 legislation that SEMA is working on pertains to pre 75 vechicles.As E85 burns much cleaner than gasoline, they are trying to get a loophole passed that would make a pre 75 vechicles modified to run exclusivley E85 smog excempt like a pre 1964 vechicles.I found this information out from a friend who is a State of California Smog Ref and another who is a a lobbyist in Sacramento. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesd Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 How do they define running on e85 'exclusive' , I wonder. With my fuel system, I could program it to different maps without a problem. They know people can rejet as soon as the inspection is over as well. Then again, I don't have smog issues with my car anyhow. -L The E85 legislation that SEMA is working on pertains to pre 75 vechicles.As E85 burns much cleaner than gasoline, they are trying to get a loophole passed that would make a pre 75 vechicles modified to run exclusivley E85 smog excempt like a pre 1964 vechicles.I found this information out from a friend who is a State of California Smog Ref and another who is a a lobbyist in Sacramento. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The section quoted means no RETROFIT engines are legal (unless performed and documented to have occurred before the May 1984 Law Came in to effect). You have a 1976 vehicle, a 1976 or newer engine with all applicable smog equipment can be used to do the engine swap. ANY passenger car engine is legal. This is the basis for this site! You can't tell me a 76 SBC is cleaner than a 2.8L inline six! It's any passenger car engine into any other passenger car. Hell, you could stick a ROTARY into it from a 78 RX7 and be legal (good luck getting it to pass smog out the pipe, though!!!LOL) A 1975 engine swap is illegal, as would be one from a 1970, or an engine from a TRUCK and can not be certified no matter what you do...with the caveat that you will have to install all smog and emissions equipment from a 76 onto the 75 engine, and if it passes tailpipe and visual, then it will pass....but you are still being smogged to at least the chassis year of the vehicle. Before May 1984, you COULD retrofit the engines, so if you put a documented 64 SBC into a 1976, the car would be smogged to a 1964 Standard. I went round and round with BAR on this exact same thing when I tried to get my 73 Initially Registered in the state with a 1970 engine in it. BIG hassle, and long story short, they did not accept my documentation for the engine swap, and I was forced to have all 1973 Smog Stuff on the car (and as a result put out 10X the CO, and passed HC by 3ppm (997ppm vs 1000 allowable) compared to the 71 setup that was in the car which piped clean to 1983 CATALYZED standards!!! Don't get me started on the stupid bureaucratic rules these idiots devise. As for SEMA and E85. It's not written yet, it's not law yet, and until it is, you will drive yourself crazy planning for stuff as to the second it passes, it's available for total revision and scrapping. Such was the 30 (now 35) year rolling exemption from Visual Inspection for vehicles with Collector Car Insurance. (Yeah, it's in there, guys....) As for lesd's contention of putting a Gas engine in a Z that was converted to Diesel why the hell would I ever do that?!?!?!!?!?!?!!? Seriously, if I'm putting a diesel in there, it's getting a TURBO, and will make mroe than enough power for daily driving and occasional track usage. The Gasoline engines are not some great aura for me---I am in the process of converting a 1978 VW Microbus into a Turbodiesel. Once I go with the Magic Oil, I will not run the crap fuel once known for it's abilities to remove paint from clothing... The specific heat from Diesel is much higher than gasoline. You can get more power with less fuel than using Petrol. If it goes oil-burner, it STAYS oil burner. If I wanted to get around SMOG and still run CAL plates, there are PLENTY of ways to do so that nobody says "Boo" at... But I'm not discussing them in a public (or private for that matter) forum. That is up for you guys to figure out on your own. If nothing else, plate the vehicle out of state. Tell me how they prove you've been in the state more than the requisite 10 days with an intent to keep the vehicle in the state permanently... I ran Alabama plates for 4 years to circumvent smog on my 74, because I TOLD the idiots at the DMV that was what I was going to do! They refused to give me a TITLE on a car that DID NOT RUN but was complete. "We need a smog to get a title". No, NO they did NOT! But they were such idiots about it, I went and plated it out of state for four years (after I got it running) just out of SPITE. The DMV is a bunch of idiots, and I'm too damned old to play their stupid people tricks just to have the priviledge of driving MY car on what they perceive as THEIR roads. Screw them! Damn, you got me started. I better stop now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eec564 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I agree, the CA laws are terrible, and so complicated that the people at the DMV don't know them for crap. That is BS that they wouldn't give you a TITLE for ownership of a car without a smog cert. It's registration that may need smog, but you could title it non-op and they couldn't say boo. Beaurocracy fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesd Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Tony, no need to tell me the great things about diesel, I drive a TDI VW that goes over 700 miles between fillups. It's my daily driver. Better than hybrid type mileage. Here is the deal, I do know that some people get diesel cars , rip out the diesel, and install a hi-po gasser in there. It's a common scam. They just want to avoid the smog inspection. Also, Diesels weigh a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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