proxlamus© Posted April 7, 2007 Author Share Posted April 7, 2007 oh thats right I can control the HZ output.. 5.6hz all the way to 39hz. what would be the best? probably the highest setting Pete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I think it has a lot to do with the waste gate actuator, and how fast your valve is. I would set it somewhere in the middle to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I haven't seen a wastegate that opens and shuts faster than my eye can see when I am making a full throttle run through 3rd and 4th gear?? Full boost is on for quite some time, seconds. Wouldn't the LED work in this case. Even if the wastegate opens and shuts during full boost portin, it will not cycle that fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 The boost controller doesn't just open the waste gate at a certain pressure and then leave it open (this is how a manual valve works), it modulates it on an off very rapidly. This is how more precise control is obtained. It is essentially a feedback loop. The ECU monitors manifold pressure, and then changes the duty cycle on the pressure valve to maintain a preset pressure. This is why the configuration control parameters for the boost control are so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I'm no electrical engineer but wouldn't an idle speed control routine be similar to the boost control routine? MS-II has IAC stepper control. Could that be used for boost control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 The IAC algorithm is trying to maintain a stable idle, where the boost controller tries to maintain a stable manifold pressure. But the way it modulates the IAC valve on and off is similar to a boost controller. Yes, the MSII could do it, but it would take some significant code changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted April 8, 2007 Author Share Posted April 8, 2007 erm.. I meant what Hz setting should I set the output to so I can see the LED light up since you said the human eye can't see 60hz?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 the rule of thumb is that the human eye can see 30hz and slower oscillations. If it can be set as slow as 5-6hz like you say I would start there, that is only 5-6 cycles per second, very easy to see when the modulation occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Just my two cents here.... it's been a long-held rule that 30 hz, or 30 events of any kind was the limit for the human eye to detect... but there has been a long standing debate in the gaming world about this, because many serious gamers/hardware modders were convinced otherwise. When gaming, the FPS performance (Frames Per Second that your video card will render the games graphics) is important, especially to the "Shooter" genre... if you are running 30fps (equivalent in this discussion to 30hz) and your opponent was capable of 60 or 100+hz.... he had an advantage in the twitch response times. The difference between 30 FPS and 60 in most games is easily discernible, and for some players, the difference between 60 and 120 is noticeable as well. In the past few years there have finally been scientific studies that have muddied the waters, but at least proved that there was no set in stone limit for our ability to discern these minute and rapid changes. Almost completely off-topic, but it relates in that someone with decent eyes who is looking for these differences to begin with will probably have more latitude than you might think. More important in this instance would be the medium you use to display the oscillations... many devices will not show the cycle accurately, or will not be able to go from completely dark to completely lit and back again as fast as your signal does... and will appear to be constantly on, or will show a flicker with insufficient extremes for you to easily see. Anyone who has bought or considered buying an LCD monitor will know this phenomenon as "Ghosting"... pixels that can not cycle as fast as the input does, and therefore leave a ghost image trail behind moving images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyZ Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Nearly two years after the last post... Prox and others, did you ever figure it out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 You know I think the biggest problem is my 021u code. I tried switching once to 029 and I don't know what happened but no matter what the settings my car ran like absolute crap. I couldn't figure it out. So if 021u works.. it works lol. Maybe I'll try to update again over the next few weeks. Then maybe the unit will work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnickel Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Although i didn't read the whole thread, it seemed people said MS2 can't use this. But actually, there is MS2 Extra, which is a pretty feature rich developed codebase. It's what i'll be using. Also, the "experimental" Boost controller originally implemented for MS extra wasn't actually done the best i don't think. I know they made some significant changes recently to the MS2 one (which was originally the same as the MS1 extra one). Apparantly it responds at lot better now as the got the PID algorithm working better. They also modded the idle algorithm too (which is PID as well). PID = Proportional, Integral, and Derivative values. Wiki has a good description of it in case you're wondering how these things work. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I believe that this thread was started so long ago that MS2 extra did not exist. Now it does so it should offer a lot of advantages. Over the last two years I have not come across anyone on the net that is using MSI or MS2 extra to run boost control. Maybe someone is doing it now and will come forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I believe that this thread was started so long ago that MS2 extra did not exist. Now it does so it should offer a lot of advantages. Over the last two years I have not come across anyone on the net that is using MSI or MS2 extra to run boost control. Maybe someone is doing it now and will come forward. We've used MS1/Extra for boost control on several of our project cars. The best way to make it work is to force it into open loop, where it runs pretty well. We never did get the closed loop mode working. GM boost control solenoids, and the EBC solenoid we now sell, work well at 19.5 Hz. As for MS2/Extra boost control, we have tested open loop mode on the bench and found it's pretty straightforward to implement, but we have not yet tested it on a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Thanks for the update Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 You're welcome. Let me know if you have any questions. Our MSPNP manual has a couple of tips we wrote on tuning the MS1/Extra boost control - click here and scroll down a ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Well i wired this up last night and im going to be using the ebc valve that diy sells. ill let ya know how it works!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S130Z Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Well i wired this up last night and im going to be using the ebc valve that diy sells. ill let ya know how it works!!! Subscribed, keep us posted, I am very anxious to see this work after so long. Adam Slver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 I would be interested in pics and a brief description... just to know where I went wrong lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Ill let ya know as soon as i get my tps working. i have 5 volts going to the tps and i have variable volts coming back. Its getting lost between the relay board and the ms. So idk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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