Daeron Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I haven't started reading this forum extensively until the last week or two, but I have been into Zcars my whole life. I've also been a zcar.com member for several years.. now go ahead and flame me if you like, and move the thread if it warrants it.. but I just figured I would ask real quick to confirm a growing suspicion... Most of you folks here that stick with the L-series seem to be geared either towards just turboing it and forgetting trying to achieve real NA power, or if you are going the NA route you are going the big bucks, racecar way.. I mean, not that it is set in stone or anything, but I am more or less correct, huh?? I mean, it is HYBRID Z, not shadetree horsepower Z dot org... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbleguinea Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 hardly!!! ive got a NA 2.8L 2+2 that runs in the low 13's!!!! i dont believe in turbo... all it takes is fuel system, EFI intake, and some porting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I like N/A L6 motors...but turbo L6's are faster! Current motor is an L26 L24 flattops, MN47 head, header-2.5" pipe, roundtops, and a couple other little things... 10.2:1 CR and it is LOUD!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 you can definitely build some bad arse n/a setups, my friend used to have a 2.9L triple card'd setup with a healthy ported head and that thing was freakin mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 whoa, cool, ample positive feedback in like half an hour.... I just came back to add an edit that I wasn't even really looking for info or help or advice... I know that turbo is just the simplest way to power, but my first memories are riding around sunday mornings with my dad in his 72 240 with a hot head.. back in 83/84 of course, it was a carb'ed car, and I just cant get that off-the-line, screaming exhaust note out of my head to this day.... My dad's 83 turbo was really nice, until it got rear ended.. and I mean, the snap-back of the neck in 2nd gear when that turbo kicked in (even stock) was amazing, but its just not a quite a Z with that turbo whine, to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I'd warn you about making statements like "just not a quite a Z with that turbo whine" umm...yeah. Bad idea there...lol and turbo is not the simplest way to make power... raising compression and porting are more like it... The CHEAPEST way to make lots of power is to go turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 I'd warn you about making statements like"just not a quite a Z with that turbo whine" umm...yeah. Bad idea there...lol and turbo is not the simplest way to make power... raising compression and porting are more like it... The CHEAPEST way to make lots of power is to go turbo. Heh, simple means cheap to me. work is nothing, thought is nothing.. money is the biggest complication in MY life, I dunno about you.. ..And I *did* say "to me" after I made my comment:mrgreen: but I know what you mean. Its just heritage I guess, plus the exhaust note is really a key to me.. I actually have a sort of fondness for that mid-rpm engine drone, because it helped me understand that music is just a mathematical expression when I was like, eight.... (harmonics and whatnot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 "whoa, cool, ample positive feedback in like half an hour.... I just came back to add an edit that I wasn't even really looking for info or help or advice..." You're not in Kansas anymore, Toto. Hybridz is the most active Z-car site you're likely to find... with the most diversely educated and well-versed members in both stock and hybrid Z applications. Once you've had "hybridz"... you'll NEVER go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Money is usually a complication... For power in the 300hp and less range you might as well stay N/A and build it. For power over that then it gets REALLY $$$$$$$$$ to stay N/A... I am doubling (or more!?!?) the cubes and adding a pair of power adders for my next motor... Maybe I'll even run E85 if I can find a good source for it! Whatever floats your boat though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 You're not in Kansas anymore, Toto. Hybridz is the most active Z-car site you're likely to find... with the most diversely educated and well-versed members in both stock and hybrid Z applications. Once you've had "hybridz"... you'll NEVER go back. Oh, I could tell that from the get-go... its just SO MUCH information to wade through that is not quite exactly what I am looking for.. but it is ALL education. I never said anything about being set in stone against turbocharging, either.. I just want to start simple, first. Aww, why not, I'll throw out my vague plans here and now, and try to add disclaimers where I know i may be being stupid I was thinking f54 block with stock flattops (but I really know the LEAST about block/crank/piston combos) and a P90 head shaved 0.080". 60MM TB, injectors, fuel rail, hot spark (also know very little about ignition) and port match all the way.. Thus far most of my research and reading has gone into cylinder head work. All I want (at first, at least) is about 200-250 WHP, and if I can *actually* pull off the 0.080 shaved P90 high comp setup, and I put some miles on the cylinder head and she still looks good, then I might look into MSnS and building a bottom end. Obviously the added fuel and air will want MS from the get-go, obviously I am going into potentially troubled waters with the shaved P90.. and obviously I still have a lot to learn BUT my thoughts are geared towards a couple things... A, getting my Z back on the road ASAP and B, gradually building power into it while driving it. Hopefully she will not be my only vehicle, as she was for the five years I drove her. Having your Z as a daily driver is fun, but it hinders the work process Nice to start getting to know more gearheads. Hopefully sometime soon I will stop lurking and asking questions, and START working and posting projects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I am in the brocess if building a N/A motor for my zed. Lets say not your stock N/A overbore build up either - no stroker crank. Just a well sorted L28 (with overbore) with L28 rods and crank, triple throttle bodies and a megasquirt running of a crank trigger system. This is still a work in progress as the bottom end is still with the builder and I have not started on the head work yet. Good things take time I did think about going turbo but having never owned a turbo charged car before I thought I would stick with what I know and that is N/A even thought about a nissan v8 or custom RB30DE with triple throttle bodies but decided to stick with the L series. Maybe a future project might be a RB30DE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Oh yeah, bubbleguinea.. I watched you start building your 280 over on zcar.com and was mind bogglingly envious of the amount of time and money you had to dedicate to your car.... My Z got sidelined in October of 2004, and you were doing your total body restore at that point.. made me drool... I also forgot to mention that my dad and uncle have been working on these things since the 70's, and my uncle (the batchelor) has been hoarding bits and parts the whole time, too.. on the side, he plays around with the older of the two BRE 2000 roadster racecars (I forget which number, but its the one with the slightly taller roll bar) I may be wrong, but I believe its the car in the foreground in this image Anyhow, with cylinder heads and blocks and rods and pistons to spare.. HOPEFULLY I can pull this off at a minimal investment. I hope to build the lowest-budget 280 that has ever been done, RIGHT. Doing it right takes precedence over being cheap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003z Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 another NA here. In the long process of reassembly (2 full time jobs, when I have free time, its hard to get motivated) L28, std. bore Nissan Motorsports domed pistons P90 head, Schneider stage 2 cam AZC manifold / Holley 390 Fidanza flywheel Hopefully it will be fun on the race course. Going from 7.3:1 NA compression to around 9.1:1 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I'm waiting to blow up my L6 before I do a V8 swap, but there really is a lot of NA info here. Search the L6 forum for member names like BRAAP, johnc, Dan Baldwin, briann510, katman, 1 fast z, Mack and DAW and you'll find a ton of arguments and even more good information. Some of us go for the big bucks, some have garage built motors. I built mine in my garage, just had the machine shop hone the block and deck the head and do the valve job. Did all the porting and chamber work myself and prepped the block and all that too. Search and you will find what you're looking for. One suggestion I would make is to get rid of the stock FI if your local smog rules allow for it. All of the components are so old and the connectors are all F'ed up, and they have the restrictive AFM and batch fire. They're really pretty crappy. I'd sooner swap in SU's than run a stock injection setup. MSnS would be another good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 L28, std. bore Nissan Motorsports domed pistons P90 head, Schneider stage 2 cam Hopefully it will be fun on the race course. Going from 7.3:1 NA compression to around 9.1:1 or so. Some of us go for the big bucks, some have garage built motors. I built mine in my garage, just had the machine shop hone the block and deck the head and do the valve job. Did all the porting and chamber work myself and prepped the block and all that too. Search and you will find what you're looking for. One suggestion I would make is to get rid of the stock FI if your local smog rules allow for it. All of the components are so old and the connectors are all F'ed up, and they have the restrictive AFM and batch fire. They're really pretty crappy. I'd sooner swap in SU's than run a stock injection setup. MSnS would be another good option. 2003z: what kind of cash did those pistons set you back? now I am being lazy and milking for info, but for now its just vague notions still being formed, so vague information is OK jmortensen: I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, just going out and buying the standalone FI is not exactly an option for me, so I have been busy sourcing all the plugs and electrical componentry needed from junkyards.. I realize that its simple enough at THIS point to find all the plugs new, but its also easy to go to the junkyard and find a wrecked BMW or VW or Volvo or any other vehicle with bosh style EFI and find ALL the connectors and rubber boots and different kinds of spring clips you could want! I am anticipating basically a full component check of all my FI sensors/gadgets etc per FSM procedures, and retrofitting new (junkyard) plugs onto EVERYTHING, replacing wire where I need to. Then, when MS time comes, I already have the component ends of my wiring harness replaced, and I can just dovetail it in. For now, I plan on leaving the current longblock** untouched, and probably not even changing much beyond MAYBE the TB/AFM for starters, this should be more than sufficient. Once the car runs again, (more reliably than I ever had time to make it when it was a DD) then its WAAAY overdue for rust work, some body work, and primer. Once primer is on, interior, brakes and suspension take priority over engine.. and the long process of nickel and diming me to death is well begun. THEN, once I am used to spending actual MONEY on the car.. i start playing REAL games. For now, its all just tinkering and a lot of reading and talking. I'm not a total n00b, but I know I am BOUND to ask an ignorant question or two ** I do not know what the deal is with this engine. Head/block castings are stock (I remember checking them against what it should have in the past and verifying that they were "stock") and I am unclear on the mileage. NO history of the vehicle from the PO, and the speedo cable has been broke since I bought it. The odometer reads 11,500 miles. I drove it for a little over four years. The other almost four years I have been driving, I have averaged about 20K miles in a year, so my conservative estimate on how many miles I put on the thing is 65K. The car was NOT in the kind of shape I would expect for an 11,000 mile car, so I can only assume this car may be almost, or even WELL beyond 200K miles. The engine runs STRONG on low test with no pinging. So, no real reason to believe the motor IS stock, but no real reason to believe it isn't either. If its stock, then I have one heck of a well-seasoned block to rebuild Oh, and I write long posts. sorry; I try to keep them as concise as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.I.jonas Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 TURBO!!!! Sorry just had to drop my usuall out of place $.02.I love turbo because internal combustion engines are inheirently the most absurdly inefficient things ever.You are already wasting about 80 percent of your engines potential in heat loss,it seems common sense to scavenge that and make something of it.Even if you dont want to have 600hp,just have a low boost system and have piece of mind that your machine is doing what it is supposed to do better by means of scientific law.N/A is cool and i do respect the art of making it work good,its just becoming vintage technology like leaf springs and drum brakes.Not to mention its so easy to do nowadays,plus its cool to just tell your engine how much power you want at a given time by pushing buttons or at the hardest turning a screw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 TURBO!!!! Sorry just had to drop my usuall out of place $.02. Being rather centsless, I'll welcome any .02 I can get! Don't worry, if you make good points then the post is never out of place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Personally, I would prefer a well-built N/A, to a half-assed/dodgey built turbo. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADY280 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 another really well built n/a here. was running 11.8:1 on the street, but it gets expensive with the recent hike in gas prices. as well as zylene prices. i bought a 2mm gasket and brought it down to 10.8:1. havent done a 1/4 mile run and weigh in yet to calculate "real world hp" im trying for 250rwhp if ya want to know. not far out, but not easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal-s130 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I was waiting for shady to post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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