JMortensen Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I don't think camber plates are allowed in FP, one of the nat guys told me he was running 400lb springs all around with sectione housings and 16x12 wheels with non dot slicks, me I run EM and just ordered 17x11 fronts and 17x12 rears with 295's and 315's respectively, with 440 lb springs, so I'll be cutting mine as well Camber plates are definitely allowed in FP. 17" rims are not. 16's are max, anything wider than 16 x 10 incurs a weight penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 and upon reading the sig, I don't think his motor is FP legal, i didnt' think the stroker was legal in FP? and there are FP 240Z's putting 250 whp on 14:1 cr with the stock crank and race gas http://sth2.com/Z-car/ adn the guys at GC swear the Tokiko inserrts are good to 500 lb springs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I looked up the camber plates looks like they are legal but the engine isn't, the max overbore is .040 and stroke increase is out, longer rods and custom pistons with all the machining you want are allowed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 my engine isn't legal!? damn. oh well. at least people won't care until i start winning...and with the kind of tires i'll be running, that won't really happen. good trade. not so much. perhaps i will end up selling it one day... *sniff* anyone else feel like kicking the rookie in the nuts? haha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 this is why I run EM, I ran FP for a while, very small calss local, just me and one other guy, then I swapped to the turbo motor which bumped me to EM, been thinking of adding the interior and heater so I can run SM2 which is a very large very competitive class in my region, I say buid the car you want and run it whereever it fits, don't worry about winning or pax, if you're still kinda new seat time is the most important thing, I've been doing this for about 8 years, I was contect in the back of the pack and building my cars how I wanted them, until the past few years the car finally getting where I wanted ti and the driver improving enough to place well in the top 10% of raw sort, gonna try to get a divisional title under my belt this year if I can make it to enough divisional events, and maybe with a fresh motor next year I can go get my butt whooped at nats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperredls1z Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Looks to me like you already have a competative OSPO or SM2 car, try a set of Khumo 710's in 225/50-16 (too bad they don't make a 245) it would on those rims. Or get some 17X8 rims and go 245/45. thats what I run, they stick great once they get warm. You will still be able to install camber plates and other suspension mods and stay legal in class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Are Toyo RA-1s legal in FP? I run 245-45ZR16s on 16x8 rims. Hear is what they look like: Miatas typically kick my but at Auto-x running 205 width tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 according to tire rack, the hoosier A6 comes in 245/45r16, and their chart indicates it would mount on my rim, albeit not ideally. i know that FP runs wider tires in the back, but from my experience on street tires, this makes no sense to me. even with my stroker, my limiting factor is the front tires for braking/turning unless i'm on the way out of a really tight turn and have a binary pedal or go into 1st. with proper throttling it's fine, too much gas and sometimes i'll push vice break loose. thoughts? [or does my front end just need a better setup, ie camber/caster/geometry] pete - when you run those 245s, do they rub your air dam in the front in a turn? that's my concern... and that's another thing. i can't EVER downshift into 1st unless the car's at a complete stop, so attempting to do so in a race would just grind my gears. i've had new synchros put in twice. it's like there isn't a synchro for 1st! what's the deal? a mechanic started talking clutch selection for me. i've got the centerforce dual friction, which has plenty of grab for me, but he said it's all about weight. i've got a light flighwheel driven by very touchy throttle response connected to an ancient tranny. he said getting a racing clutch would let it change speeds easier and then shift better. john? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 i know that FP runs wider tires in the back, but from my experience on street tires, this makes no sense to me. even with my stroker, my limiting factor is the front tires for braking/turning unless i'm on the way out of a really tight turn and have a binary pedal or go into 1st. with proper throttling it's fine, too much gas and sometimes i'll push vice break loose. thoughts? [or does my front end just need a better setup, ie camber/caster/geometry] Exactly how experienced are you? That's not mean to be an offensive remark but it sounds like you're pretty new to this game and autox has a steep learning curve depending on what you drive. You either have too much front brake bias or you are simply asking too much of your front tires. Street tires (even R compounders) can only give you a finite amount of grip. The total grip is distrubuted between cornering and braking. Too much of one and the tire will start sliding because you're asking more than the total grip allowed. and that's another thing. i can't EVER downshift into 1st unless the car's at a complete stop, so attempting to do so in a race would just grind my gears. i've had new synchros put in twice. it's like there isn't a synchro for 1st! what's the deal? a mechanic started talking clutch selection for me. i've got the centerforce dual friction, which has plenty of grab for me, but he said it's all about weight. i've got a light flighwheel driven by very touchy throttle response connected to an ancient tranny. he said getting a racing clutch would let it change speeds easier and then shift better. How do you downshift? It doesn't sound like you double clutch at all. If you did this wouldn't be an issue. I typically don't use the clutch at all when downshifting. Worn out synchros are more of an issue when you try and upshift fast, at least for me. You are in the rock and a hard place that happens when you build a car you like and then decide to go play with it. This is why we tell people if they intend to race their cars they need to look at the rule book and be careful what they do. SM2, EM, or local run what you brung class are your only real options. As others have pointed out your engine wouldn't be legal in FP. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Are Toyo RA-1s legal in FP? The only thing that is currently regulated is rim width and diameter. Tire construction is free (DOT are fine). Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Race O/SP... Forget about PAX, find someone who is just a bit faster than you, and work until you can beat them. Then find someone faster again and do the same thing, etc, until you're coming out really high in the raw times. That's pretty much your option, unless you want to run Mod where you'll get your ass handed to you or put a different engine in (I totally forgot about your stroker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Exactly how experienced are you? That's not meant to be an offensive remark but it sounds like you're pretty new to this game and autox has a steep learning curve depending on what you drive. haha! no offense taken, i'm a fan of candor. i'm absolutely new to this game, especially in terms of suspension mods and autox seat time. some more detail: i've only been to 15 events or so, including two schools. that said, i've been driving this 240 for 10 years, and i know my car. although i have admittedly not a lot of seat time on a course, i have had enough to learn to finesse a lot more out of my tires, smooth is fast, etc. my mistakes used to be over-driving / too aggressive, binary throttle inputs, reactionary steering vice look-ahead, etc. i'm not shy about asking the best drivers to ride in my car with me or to even drive my car. i decided after about event 6 to transition to left-foot braking, and that has dramatically helped me keep the car balanced and stick instead of push/spin at the limits. i might be new to trying to be more competitive, but i beat a number SM2 cars on DOTs with my street tires. been doing a lot better lately. the learning curve has been steep, yes. You either have too much front brake bias or you are simply asking too much of your front tires. i'm convinced it's my bias at this point. pretty much any other car, even stock on sam's club tires, can out-brake me....simply because i have to worry about locking a tire up and now i'm letting off to get it rolling again. How do you downshift? It doesn't sound like you double clutch at all. If you did this wouldn't be an issue. I typically don't use the clutch at all when downshifting. no, i don't double clutch. i can pump the clutch as many times as i want, and i've never experienced a difference, up-shifting or down-shifting. no idea why...i've heard that technique before. as for down-shifting without a pedal...i can up shift that way (in a very calm manner, not accelerating), but downshifting would grind the gears so bad i cringe thinking about it. would you mind elaborating on that, please? as for screwing myself with the 3.1 kit, i put that in my car back in '99, well before i even knew what autocross was. i just liked Zs, and i've never been one to go half-assed. SM2 it is for this car, i guess. seems odd to me that i can have a stroker in a street class but not a prepared class... O/SP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 adn the guys at GC swear the Tokiko inserrts are good to 500 lb springs And if you call the techs at Tokico, they say the BZ3099 and BZ3015 are good to 250 lb. in. I've broken BZ3015s with 300 lb. in. springs. I've had customers break BZ3099s with 275 lb. springs. There are probably some Tokico Illuminas that are good to a 500 lb. in. rate, but none of them fit in a 240Z strut tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 zedbaron, To downshift without the clutch, you simply need to match the revs. This involves: 1. Pull the box out of gear. 2. Blip the throttle to get the revs to sweep across the point where they match 3. Apply relatively light pressure to the stick and wait for the revs to match. When they do it will simply pop into gear. I've never done it in anger, so may be wrong. Heel & toe for me. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 O/SP = Open street prepared. Basically anything is legal so long as you have DOT legal tires, so Hoosier, Kuhmo, etc DOT legal R compound tires are acceptable but full slicks are not. Double clutching is not the easiest thing to do, and heel/toe will get you most of the way there in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 pete - when you run those 245s, do they rub your air dam in the front in a turn? that's my concern... I'm running the 245-45ZR16s on 16x8 rims, with a 5" backspace. No rubbing up front, but I had to trim the fender lip in the rear to prevent rubbing. O/SP = Open street prepared. Basically anything is legal so long as you have DOT legal tires, so Hoosier, Kuhmo, etc DOT legal R compound tires are acceptable but full slicks are not. I'm not sure why anyone would want to run full on road race tire like a Hoosier slick for Auto-X, they will never come up to temperature to make them even slightly sticky in an Auto-X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I'm not sure why anyone would want to run full on road race tire like a Hoosier slick for Auto-X, they will never come up to temperature to make them even slightly sticky in an Auto-X. Hoosier makes an autox compound for their DOT tires. Kuhmo doesn't, but still either will be WAAAAAAAAAAY faster than a street tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Take a look at Greg Ira's E Prod. Car: Its running the Subtle Z body kit with 23.5X9X15 tire on a 15X7 wheel. http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/jmark240z/VIR%2006%20Oak%20Tree/?action=view¤t=EPCarfrontstraightVIR.flv http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117063&highlight=subtle I think something you might want to look at is your brakes. They are really limiting what wheels you can run. You may be better off selling them and getting a Arizona Z car disc brake setup all around. http://www.arizonazcar.com/brake.html Then you could run some 15" wheels with a lot of tire selection. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Don't look at a limited prep road race EP car for an example of the best way of doing things. SCCA severly limits the preparation allowed for 240Zs in EP. They run 15 x 7 wheels because they have to and Goodyear/Hoosier make special bias ply cantaliever slicks that give 9" of tread width on a 7" rim. They work for road race, but unless you can get a super soft qualifying compound (R25 or softer) they are useless for autocross. We ran these slicks on Bryan Lampe's ITS 240Z in the first OTC and they worked very well for 6 heat cycles. Less well after that. We also had to roll the front and rear fender lips and still had rubbing in the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I'm not sure if my post was unclear. I wasn't stating that he should run the same wheel/tire setup that Greg Ira's running. I was just stating the tire size so he could see the fitment of them under the Subtle Z body kit. Giving stock fenders, what size wheels would give the best selection of slick sizes? 15X9? Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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