24OZ Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 I gave my tank to a radiator shop to build me a wall or baffle around the pickup and they've cut my tank open and called me to tell me that there is already one in there! Here are the pics.. Pic1 Pic2 Pic3 I new there was some kind of baffle in a 240 tank but not such a large one. Can anyone give me some advice to pass on to them as they dont know what else they can do really... I am thinking that these baffles cant be good enough as this is why everyone has been saying to fit a surge tank or modify the tank. Please help as the tank is with them and they are waiting for further instructions. I am feeling like a complete Noob now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getZ Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 There's a couple easy routes you can go. Sump it or add the pickup from a late model vehicle. There's a lot of old threads with pictures about which way you go in the archives providing the search function is working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24OZ Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 I checked the archives out on this and saw the pics of the in-tank pump and the sumps, I want to go for a different route though. Mainly because i have already purchased an expensive external tank already and I dont like the idea of the sump. I have already asked them to enlarge the pickup to 15mm and the inlet to 10mm. What do you guys think of a circular pot around the pickup? Or another Square tray around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 How about fuel cell foam. Just stick it in that hole http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RCI%2D7050A&N=700+115&autoview=sku Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 That baffle simply isn't good enough for a fuel injected vehicle. Expose the pick up tube just once under full throttle and the engine will go lean risking damage. Carbs have fuel bowls which will tolerate a momentary loss of fuel pressure. Somewhere someone has posted a pic of the inside of a 280 tank. The 280 tank has that same baffle plus a circular fuel pot in the middle of the tank with the supply and return line plumbed into that. I am not sure what type of trap doors they have to allow the fuel into the fuel pot but not out. If you are fuel injected have them add something like that. If you are carbed, then just add a bigger inlet tube and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24OZ Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 Mike - Thanks for the idea, something to look into. I heard that the foam deteriorates with time, I must look into how long its life is. Pop N Wood -My car indeed will be fuel injected and turbo charged. I like the idea of a circular fuel pot with the return and pick up inside it. These guys are trying to do their best, they are a rad/fuel repair shop, but sadly no experience with making fuel baffles/bowls. I will see if i can find that pic on the 280ZX tank you mention, in the meantime if anyone has any ideas of how the circular fuel pot should be designed that would be great! Thanks folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Pop - can't seem to find these pics youre referring to... Got a link? My 260Z is a late model (60000+) with the 280Z frame. Even though it was carb from the factory, is there a chance Nissan put the sumped tank in it because they were transitioning to EFI? I know it's a longshot -- a pic would really help so I know what difference to look for. Is the baffled tank from a 280ZX or a 280Z? - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=120450 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Awesome.. thanks for the help. Since this is a gas tank modification thread, I thought I'd also post up that I just got an email from Eastwood today. They are having a sale on gas tank sealer kits (approx. 25% off). Check it here: http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&itemID=382&keyword=10165 Just add the car kit to your cart and it should show a $10 discount. - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 I would not 'call it a day' with simply a larger tube on a carbbed application. The stock SU's will starve on hard, banked, longer lefthanders below 1/4 tank! Even Nissan in their competition prep manual for the Mikuinis recommended a surge tank/swirl pot for carbs when using a 240Z! Make the swirlpot and fuel return line dump into said swirlpot to keep it flooded. As mentioned gated trapdoors and etc all can be added. The parts from a 280ZX tank could probably be adapted fairly easy. My photo is no better than the one already posted of what it should look like, sorry. While they have the top off, why not have them add a 1/4" flange with captive nuts on the TOP of the tank, and make a removable cover so you can access it later at your convienience? You already hacked it up, make it easy to access in the future NOW while it's apart, and if you need to make changes again later, at least you will be able to access it without paying more $$$. Though for a radiator shop, that may be asking for a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Awesome.. thanks for the help. Since this is a gas tank modification thread, I thought I'd also post up that I just got an email from Eastwood today. They are having a sale on gas tank sealer kits (approx. 25% off). Check it here: http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&itemID=382&keyword=10165 Just add the car kit to your cart and it should show a $10 discount. - Greg - I think that is the stuff Pete Paraska used to seal his tank, then had it come off in pieces causing him no end of grief. Be careful with it. Yeah, the best solution for a 240 is a 74-75 280 tank. But failing that larger pick ups are a step in the right direction. Since it is already open the access door and internal tank sounds like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24OZ Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 Thanks very much folks, I am very grateful for the info. Pops - thanks for finding that thread, even with a search i never found it. What exactly is going on in that picture? I can see a pipe welded into the top of that pot, i guess that would be the fuel return, but where is the fuel supply? I would have thought that would have been coming in from the top, to the very bottom of the tank. And is that pipe flowing into the other side of the wall necessary? I guess its an overflow pipe from the pot? But why is it necessary to do that and not just let it flow over the pot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 If you go to zgeezer's photo album he has a bunch of pictures of both tanks. It looks like the supply and return lines come out of the side of the 280 tank. They are the big tubes going straight from the side of the pot to the side of the tank. The other tubes must be vents of some type? I have no idea what that one coming through the right side of that baffle is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 The 'baffle pipe' is actually the return line on a 280Z tank. On the ZX, the return line swirls in the pot. That 'through the baffle' line likes to get obstructed right at the first 90 degree turn inside the tank and remind you why you can't be cheap and use normal carburetted fuel line on the 'return line because it's just a return line there's no pressure in it anyway'.... When it blows up and you hear this "SSSSSSSSSSSS" and smell a STRONG gas odor from the back of the car you get out to look and wonder "what's all that on the driveway?" about the same time you drop down to see the fuel spraying like crazy all over your exhaust pipe and onto the ground from the ruptured line... Not that this has EVER happend to me. Not that I try to be cheap and skip replacing stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I think that is the stuff Pete Paraska used to seal his tank, then had it come off in pieces causing him no end of grief. Be careful with it. Yeah, the best solution for a 240 is a 74-75 280 tank. But failing that larger pick ups are a step in the right direction. Since it is already open the access door and internal tank sounds like a good idea. Hmm thats a warning I'll be keeping in mind. There was some guy that posted a couple of weeks ago about a company that did tank reconditioning -- I'll probably just go to them when the time comes. Not that this has EVER happend to me. Not that I try to be cheap and skip replacing stuff... Here's a story for you... one time I was getting on the freeway in my turbo G20, easing into boost. The car just seemed to hit a wall, then would barely rev. I was really concerned I blew something up (but heard no weird noises), so I pulled over and then the car died and wouldnt start again. Half tank of gas, no leaks up front, I was totally confused. I had to get the car towed home, then started checking the 3 main things - air, fuel, spark. Well when I pulled off the feed line to the rail it was dry. Figured I better check the tank. Lo and behold, the feed line blew off the fuel pump inside the tank. The cause? A shitty worm drive clamp couldnt keep the hose on and over years the hose finally worked itself off. Sucked that a $1 part cost me a $100 tow and an afternoon. At least I didnt have gas spewing all over my exhaust - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Quick Thrash before MSA AutoX few years ago (when it was at Irwindale) and my wifes 260 was skipping beats and then just died. Half tank of gas.... Long story short: Had unwittingly swapped return and supply lines back at the tank. On the roadside sucking on them did not reveal which was which (of course!) Picture this conversation I was having on the cel phone: Pull it off, then suck on it. Suck on it and see if anything comes out. Listen honey, if you won't suck on it we're not getting anywhere, I need to know if you can get anything to come out! SUCK HARD, HARDER THAN YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO! It came out? What about the other one? Yeah, you're going to have to suck on that one too. I know, I know, just spit it out! On the other one, when you feel it coming up just suck shorter sucks so you don't get a mouthful.... People were looking at me funny, and I was totally oblivious till my bud Larry came up to me laughing and said: "Dude, you should have heard what you sounded like on the phone!" Later that day, and after the AutoX... DUUUH! Got BOTH the jokes then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Tony, that's funny as hell! I did have problem with Eastwoods system coming loose and clogging all kinds of stuff up. It may have been user error, but I did everything the way I read them to be done in the directions. I ended up going to an intank sump - but not the kind that hangs down below the tank. I think that's unsightly and doesn't really fix the problem for EFI that well. I had Rock Valley Antique Auto Parts make me a correct height "Tuned Port Injection Sump Kit" http://www.rockvalleyantiqueautoparts.com/catalog/tune_port_info_and_kits.pdf Here it is: Note the vertical "slit" in the side of the "can" it's how fuel gets into the sump and out. They assured me this system has been tested on many vehicles and works well to keep the fuel in the sump. Since the fuel returns to the sump, I can imagine why. One concern is heated fuel returning to the sump and warming the fuel in the sump first. Tradeoff I suppose. Do you want no fuel or warm fuel? I cut a rectangular hole in the top of the tank for it, and mounted in the front-ish area of the tank. (sorry about the out-of-focus photo!) I used various fittings and 1/2" aluminum hard line from the outlet fitting (red plug in it) and fittings and 3/8" steel hard line from the return fitting. These lines run down in front of the tank and are secured to the now brazed shut stock supply and return lines on the front of the tank. From there I connected my existing return and supply hoses to my in line pump. I had the car at the body shop getting the rear end damage fixed, so this was a quick fix to just replace the tank with this one. I also sealed off all of the vent pipes on the tank. I will go back and put an intank pump in the place it was provided on the insert that goes into the sump when I move back to EFI. This made the stock sender not fit. I bent the arm for the sender around the sump, but it fluctuates wildly as I go around corners. A better solution would be to get one of their fuel sending units and install it in the top of the tank. I may go back and do that. While I did have the system running on the car, but using a piece of hose in place of the in-tank pump, I had no problems with my TBI setup gasping for fuel while going around corners hard even with 1/4 tank, like I used to have even with 1/2 tank or more with just the stock tank pickup. I'm very satisfied with this setup, other than the fuel sending unit, which I may rectify with one of their units and stiffening plates into the top of the tank at a later date. Just another way to skin the EFI cat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getZ Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I've dealt with Rock Valley in the past for a tank they made for my camaro and I really like working with them. The mounting straps were to short and they had a set out to me later in the week. Nice folks! If my drag race style sump doesn't work out, I was thinking about asking Rock Valley if they would make a 240/280 tank. Once they get the basic layout you can custom order your options, number of inputs/return lines, AN line size, in tank pump, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I really liked working with them too. I believe the guy I talked to was Don. Older guy that was very sharp, very good phone skills, absolute pleasure to work with! I thought about having them build a tank but it was 2 or 3 times as much as just buying the sump, which wasn't cheap either. If I didn't have a good tank to work with (one I got from synlubes (Doug Carrow) and hadn't installed before the accident) I would have had them build me one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I can't say what caused Pete's problems, but I've had 0 issues with the Eastwood tank coating. The application took something like 8-9 hours, and it was not fun, but it is 100% solid, none of it has come out (I have a pre-pump filter that I check periodically since the problems that caused me to coat the tank in the first place.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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