BlackBeaut Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I though Buick sold the rights to rover to then sold the rights to TVR. Am I incorrect? I may be wrong about the speed 8 have the rover motor, but I am sure that TVR does use the rover/buick design in something. Buick sold to Rover, TVR purchased units from Rover and did some (very little in reality) performance mods to them. They were fitted to a number of TVR models over the years, from the '80s Wedges through to the Griffith and Chimaera that ended production in the early '00s. Sizes ranged from 3.5l to 5.0l. In the meantime TVR developed their own engines, initially the AJP8 which first appear in the Tuscan Challenge race car and then in the Cerbera in '96. A couple of years later they brought out the Speed6 engine, intially released in the Cerbera, then used in all further new TVR models (Tuscan road car - see rubbish Swordfish film, Tamora, T350 and Sagaris). The AJP8 was only ever in the race cars and the Cerbera, its production life ended with the Cerbera. Both the AJP8 and Speed6 were developments of designs by Al Melling, a top notch British eccentric who bears a slightly worrying resemblance to Doc Brown of Back to the Future fame Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Thanks for clearing that up Rob. I always thought that the tvr developed v8 was different to the buick/rover. So lets have a quick think about what engines have a flat plane crank Ferrari v8 lotus v8 audi v8 used in dtm going back to the early 100/5000 group a cars merc v8 dtm cars opel v8 dtm again. however i believe this is a development of the arrora engine from the U.S. Nissan v8,chevy v8- stock blocks used in the indy cars. These used to have to use the same bore centers as the production block so they might work. On a side note, I saw some f5000 cars in some local historic raceing series, one of which had a small block chevy with 8 into 1 exhausts. I belive this is called a 360 degree header. It sounded wicked. Best sounding small block I have ever heard. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Awh man, I couldn't see the picture and I assumed and made an ass outta myself. Sorry guys. One chevy 350 flat-plane crank shaft coming up. Its an unmachined untwisted forging. You would have to machine it. But if you wanted a custom stroke you would have to do some work to the crankshaft anyway. The price for the crank shaft is $625.04 Here is what is posted on the site Like the raw forging described above, this unmachined crankshaft gives competition engine builders the ability to customize a small-block Chevy's stroke dimension to fit a particular class or combination. It has a large front section for machining to big-block balancer size or small-block size. It will accommodate finished strokes from 3.20" to 4.00". The 2.900" diameter main bearing journals can be ground to fit 400ci small-block main bearings. This crank is forged from vacuum degassed 4340 steel, which provides exceptional strength and durability. This is a "non-twist" forging; all rod throws are forged in place. The large, circular counterweights are engineered to minimize bearing loads. The rod pin arms are lightened, and the machining pads found in production cranks are eliminated. Technical Notes: This crankshaft has no machining performed. It has replaced 5140 steel crank forging P/N 366280. Use with early style two-piece rear seal Here is the Link! http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/performance_parts/store/catalog/Product.jhtmlPRODID=891&CATID=883.html and this is where you can buy it from. http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ??... that appears to be a 90° crank... ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 13, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 13, 2008 So close , yet so far… Thanks for keeping your eye’s peeled for SBC single plane cranks, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that is not a single plane crank. It is a dual plane. Look closely at the crank throws, there is one every 90 degrees, instead of 180 degrees. Typical inexpensive forged cranks are forged in a single plane, then while still glowing hot, are twisted to form the dual plane. To forge a dual plane crank in the dual plane, require a more complex forge, hence the added cost, but that non twist forging is supposed to be superior in strength to its twisted brethren. One chevy 350 flat-plane crank shaft coming up. Its an unmachined untwisted forging. You would have to machine it. But if you wanted a custom stroke you would have to do some work to the crankshaft anyway.The price for the crank shaft is $625.04 Here is what is posted on the site Like the raw forging described above, this unmachined crankshaft gives competition engine builders the ability to customize a small-block Chevy's stroke dimension to fit a particular class or combination. It has a large front section for machining to big-block balancer size or small-block size. It will accommodate finished strokes from 3.20" to 4.00". The 2.900" diameter main bearing journals can be ground to fit 400ci small-block main bearings. This crank is forged from vacuum degassed 4340 steel, which provides exceptional strength and durability. This is a "non-twist" forging; all rod throws are forged in place. The large, circular counterweights are engineered to minimize bearing loads. The rod pin arms are lightened, and the machining pads found in production cranks are eliminated. Technical Notes: This crankshaft has no machining performed. It has replaced 5140 steel crank forging P/N 366280. Use with early style two-piece rear seal Here is the Link! http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/performance_parts/store/catalog/Product.jhtmlPRODID=891&CATID=883.html and this is where you can buy it from. http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 13, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 13, 2008 Along these lines, years ago, I had thought about what it would take to get a twisted forged SBC crank, though before it was twisted, and then just machine the crank pins. … *** edit *** Ah ha… Found it. Back in Post #42 of this thread, was mention of the twisted vs non twisted forgings.. http://forums.hybridz.org/showpost.php?p=772054&postcount=42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'm still wondering why it isn't cheaper just to tell the foundry to not twist the crank during the forging to keep it single plane. Seems like the process is ON OUR SIDE. Has anyone actually called around to see about just getting a standard crank "without the dual plane twisting"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I can't see the picture but the description said it was a non-twist so I assumed that it was a untwisted 90 degree crank, I was wrong . and now I am sad. Sorry I got you guys all excited for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 13, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 13, 2008 I can't see the picture but the description said it was a non-twist so I assumed that it was a untwisted 90 degree crank, I was wrong . and now I am sad. Sorry I got you guys all excited for nothing. Don’t feel bad and don’t get discouraged. Honest mistake, no biggee. Keep looking. Something is bound to turn up eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 13, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'm still wondering why it isn't cheaper just to tell the foundry to not twist the crank during the forging to keep it single plane. Seems like the process is ON OUR SIDE. Has anyone actually called around to see about just getting a standard crank "without the dual plane twisting"? In post#42, there was mention of the difference in how the crank pins come out in a non twist forging in its 180 degree state vs a dedicated single plane crank. At some point between that post and this page was more discussion about that and if memory serves…. Ah heck, I don’t recall the specifics, I just recall we had discussed it a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Nissan v8,chevy v8- stock blocks used in the indy cars. These used to have to use the same bore centers as the production block so they might work. Nissan did not use their stock V8 blocks in high-end motorsports. They may be similar and work with a 180 degree crankshaft from a Nissan racing V8, but not the same block. The VH45/VH41 block has a full skirt over the crankshaft where as most of the Nissan flat-plane motors had a lower girdle that was combined with the main caps with no skirt whatsoever. I believe that the rotating assembly may be compatable between them but that is about it. I'm not dogging the VH. Just putting correct info out there. A VH45 block/crank should be able to hold 1000+ horsepower with appropriate upgraded studs, connecting rods, pistons, bigger bore sleeves, re-worked heads, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 1,000 hp has supposedly been pulled out of a VH45 on a factory rebuild (stock internals). This was in a boat though so cooling capability would be massive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 21, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 21, 2008 Okie dokie. I finally went though and deleted the non pertinent posts, though as you can tell, this thread is still quite lengthy. It would be nice to consolidate this thread further, or spilt it into two or three threads. If one or a group of you is needing to fill up some free time and is willing to go through and read this thread and make an itemized list by post #, (upper right hand corner of the individual posts is the post number), of what posts could be merged into one post, or what posts would make for a separate thread/s, send me your idea and list via PM and I would be glad to clean this up further. Paul Ruschman HybridZ staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czecho Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Back to the actual finding a v8, lawls, I putting a 1uz-fe in my 300zx (z32), people have posted a lil about them on this thread, and it was all true, people have revved them to 9k rpm on stock internals , but no one would recommand to do that, You can also upgrade them fairly easy and doesnt cost a whole lot, There light and not that big, quad cams and turbo happy Took me awhile to find the right v8 for my car and the 1uz-fe is it its got over 200 ft lb of torque at 1000 rpm's, do u better have some nice size tires, my 7.5's will never catch haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 25, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 25, 2008 I’ve seen mention of the Yoter V-8 here a few times and its rev-ability, (on paper any how it looks comparable to the VH41DE and VH45DE, just shy a few CC’s). But no mention of anyone using 180 degree headers or a single plane crank to get that the “exotic sounding” High RPM V-8 exhaust note this thread is about? Emphasis on the term “exotic sound”, like a sport bike or Ferrari V-8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'd looked for this video a while back, last time I posted in this thread, but couldn't find it. Well I found it again. I think it's one of the best sounding 1UZFE videos on the net. A whole lot better than hearing all those burbly idle and nutral rev videos. This should give you a better idea of what the engine can sound like in a race scenario. Maybe with 180 degree headers it'd sound pretty exotic. I'm not one to suggest it might though. I'm really here just to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 25, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'd looked for this video a while back, last time I posted in this thread, but couldn't find it. Well I found it again. I think it's one of the best sounding 1UZFE videos on the net. A whole lot better than hearing all those burbly idle and nutral rev videos. This should give you a better idea of what the engine can sound like in a race scenario. Maybe with 180 degree headers it'd sound pretty exotic. I'm not one to suggest it might though. I'm really here just to read. Gollum, or is it Tree Beater (you do know the tree analogy is all in jest right?,) Dual plane V-8’s do start to loose that rough raw rumble bumble sound when they get above 7000 RPM, (and sound pretty cool at that, i.e. NACAR 8500+ RPM). Problem though is keeping at above 7000 RPM all the time. So with dual plane and traditional exhaust configuration, we are stuck with rumpity rough sounding exhaust note. Dual plane may sound nice at above 7000 RPM but it still isn’t that “exotic” Ferrari V-8, F-1 , Indy car, or inline 4 sport bike sound, even it is spinning 10,000 RPM! Just to throw a couple more dual planes high RPM V-8 out there… Here is a Twin Turbo VH45DETT. Sounds typical V-8 at low RPM, then at the one minute mark… boost and RPMs!!! OMG!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_cRQhW7nj8 Another VH45DE, this time in one of our members S-30. At 34 seconds, and 45 seconds, and 1 minute 7 seconds, 7000 RPM the dual plane sounds great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oNzb-PQI1k Here is another Twin Turbo Yoter V-8, At full song sounds amazing, around 7000-7500 RPM. Just imagine if those three V-8’s above and the one you posted, if they had a single plane crank, or at least 180 degree headers?!?!? These single plane V-8’s are revving to similar RPMs, you can “feel” the difference... Exotic like this…. OMG!!! Single plane V-8 exhaust note.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LdaNknrWxs And Oh-yeah BABY!!!, another Single plane V-8 exhaust note.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gF8hueY7LU Sorry, but NO dual plane can compare to this!!!! Another Single plane V-8 exhaust note.. Full body chills… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8t8kHWkRFo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Hey, I've got a sense of humor. (check the new avatar) So does anyone know of any ferarri junkyards???? Does anyone know if one exists? Back on topic - Ahem... BRAAP, you run a machine shop correct? So maybe you can give me a definitive answer. With all the hundreds of motor designs out there, it seems like there should be at least ONE 4 cylinder crankshaft that could be relatively easy to modify for a V8 application. Shouldn't this be easier than spending the 10k or whatever absurd amount of money it is to get a custom single plane crank? You know, I'll have to ask my friend how much it'd set me back to get an older or less desireable ferarri motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 25, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 25, 2008 Like the new avatar. The 4 cylinder crank ideer.. Hmmm… In theory that should work fine. Though finding one with correct bore spacing, main bearing width, main bearing journal diameter and main bearings, etc, to fit a V-8 block might be a long shot, even with some mild to moderate block and crank modification for it to fit... Any “long†4 cylinders out there? Maybe a Volvo or Mercedes 2.3, 2.5 or something similar? Might fit the VH45/41 or the 1uz-fe?.... Hmmm…. OTM might know… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 There aren't many 4 cylinder engines with 112mm bore spacing. VW/Porsche cranks use 112mm bore spacing but they are a flat 4, not I4. (VW aircooled type 1) That makes me think of a DOHC VTC air/water cooled VW type 1 using some cut up VH45 heads but I digress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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