ZROSSA Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 You might not have to look so far for your flat planed 3.0 lt engine. In the 60's when formula 1 changed the engine rules from 1.5 lt to 3.0 lt Jack Brabham With the help if any Aussie company called repco made a pretty basic 3.0 lt engine from the blocks of buick 215. They ran 180 cranks and were converted to over head cams and won the championship for two seasons. History is not my stong point so I could stand corrected on that. The engines made up to 380 odd hp but were outdated buy the cosworth and ferrari engines after a cuople of years. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Frist of all Thanks alot to ZROSSA you made my day. I found a ton of information about the 215 they ran. BTW you were right on your history. The beginning of the new 3-liter Formula was thought to favor Ferrari and their V12 engine but Jack Brabham and Ron Tauranac had other ideas. Their solution was to take a light spaceframe chassis and marry it to an Oldsmobile based Repco V8 engine. Repco's was a parts supplier and manufacturer in Australia that was heavily involved with the Tasman Series. Providing modified engines for the Brabham Tasman cars they were looking for a replacement for the Climax engines that they were currently using. Oldsmobile had abandoned the all-aluminum block that they had been developing for a new Buick passenger car and this proved a good starting place for the new Repco engines. Brabham hearing of these developments contracted Repco to provide him with some 3-liter Formula 1 engines. In the hands of ex-Cooper engine man John Judd the Repco V8 would produce 311 bhp which was less than the new Ferrari's 360 bhp. But a race car is more than just its engine and Ron Tauranac who had been working with Brabham since his Cooper days designed a chassis that was simple yet light. The multi-tubular spaceframe was also easy to fix after the inevitable accident. A big advantage for the new car was that it could go the distance on 35 gallons. The car won four races in a row and partnered with Denis Hulme, Brabham won his third World Championship and the first one to win it in his own car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1961-buick-215-engine_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ016QQitemZ260205687227QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW 200 bucks isn't bad. Where are the cranks is what I want to know lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Ok I just read through several articles about the Repco V8 215 and in alot of them it mentions that SOHC heads were used. How did they modify the push-rod design to a OHC design. I know that F1 teams have HUGE budgets but if they could do it, then so could we. The articles I have been looking over said that the motor they built put out around 310 HP, and they used many off the self parts to do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I'd imagine eliminating the cam/rods, plugging the holes and working out a new timing set up like 1fastz did for his dohc. What heads though..... From what I read Idk if I like that engine though. Seems to be too problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well they won 2 F1 titles with it and Rover used it for well over 30 years. Granted Rover isn't known for its realiabilty but they have ALOT of build quality issues. In my personal opinion and take this with a grain of salt. Is that the 215 when properly built would be a good motor. It would NOT set the world on fire in terms of HP out-put, nor would it be the cheapest motor to create. But you can't deny the "cool" factor and that BRAAAAP noise coming from the tail pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Your prob right, with enough money anything can be fixed but still where are the cranks? I think there are a host of engine choices but I was under the impression the consensus was 180 degree crank. No? Has anyone found any reg available ones? I kind of think we are going in circles at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Yea I feel for ya team nissan. Regardless if the 215 had a flat plane crank in racing, I don't think it had a flat plane crank on the production versions like that one on ebay for $200. So it doesn't really matter. What we're looking for is a motor with a flat plane crank from FACTORY, that's relatively affordable. I'm starting to wonder if there's a 4 cylinder crank on the market that could be used in a V8... As long as a the spacing was right it could be usible correct? You could have a machine shop grind the bearings to what specs you needed, or find rods to match. What matters most would be the main bearing and thrust bearing specs. I know cranks have quite a bit of science in them, but once you find a match, if it's a honda there's plenty of performance cranks out there to work off of... Maybe something to look into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The last of the repco engines had a 4 valve cylinder head but they were not reliable. There is also a co. called wildcat engineering in the uk that cast some new heads for the buick/rover. Apparently these heads solved the problem of the ofset valves in the standard head so you could get much larger valves in them. Might also pay to have a look at the group A rover 3500 that Tom Walkinshaw used to race. These used the standard head castings but sounded wicked when racing in the early to mid eightys. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Well if you really don't like the 215 and the idea of building that. Then I would advise you to take a look at the 84-85 MB 380SE, 81-83 MB 380 SEL, and 82-83 MB SEC. All of these cars came with a 3.8L thats only 231 cc. That could be destroked and i'm am sure that MB has plans or a single plane crank...mabye. Either way its a good motor, its in similar size to the buick 215 and its about 30 years younger. EDIT: It would seem that this motor puts out about 155 Hp in america and over 200 when the motor is overseas. Also this motor doesn't seem to have ANY aftermarket performace parts ANYWHERE. I think the motor it self could be bought cheaply but modifying it for power just woundn't work. However I won't delete this because it is a small V8 and is good information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Idk who "you" refers too but I'm bored so I'll respond lol. I'm not knocking the engine I'm just saying there as so many engines that could be built to rev and used. Both small, mid and large. The m60 bmw engine is 3.0 dohc ALL alum(not even liners) right out of the box. There is a very light Daimler 2.5 as well with alum heads stock. The cranks are what we need here not engine choices, thats my point really. So that said.. Where are the 180degree cranks? There is no affordable, available engine with one stock or company offering after market ones? Nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The you was refeering to you team nissan. There was no "hurt" intended however, I was just giving you a hard time. You bring up a very valid point though as far as the 215 in concerned. It doesn't matter which motor we use because were always going to get stuck by that single plane crank. BTW the 215 is going to have major problems with the valve train at the levels we want it to rev. So I think that anything that is SOHC, hell even just DOHC should be considered. Push rod motors just can't sustain 10K rpms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Just as something to contribute, Ben Diggles of FJ20 fame once posted for sale a custom FJ20 crank that was one of a limited set, (2 or 3?) that were fully forged and counterweighted here in North America, and said they were to be sold for roughly 3000 - 4000 at the time (less than a year ago). He is a member on this forum, and since 4 cylinder cranks are somewhat similar to 8 cylinder cranks in regards to journals, you may be able to find a 4 cylinder crank that might fit somewhat, and then request a 180 degree v8 design that would be forged, and would withstand whatever you want. I think it's mentioned everywhere across this thread, and has become the general issue that the single plane is the only thing that is hindering the process of development. I personally, want to see this come to fruition with any engine that you guys have recommended, because I like to always see interesting and new projects (to me at least), especially ones that take everyone's experience and become a community project. I think that's why I like Hybridz so much. where's that donate button ahhhhhhh found it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 The TVR speed 8 uses a buick derived 4 liter alloy engine block as everyone knows. Buick sold the rights to the 215 in the early 60's to rover. Rover then sold the rights/ motor to TVR. The motor's bearing spacing ect, are the same as rover never changed them from the buick design. TVR builds a flatplane crank and cam for their motor that they use in thier speed 8. Anyway my thoery is that build the buick 215, make the bore what ever you like, buy a tvr flat plane crank, ship it from europe. It will cost I would think about 800 for the crank an then about 300 for the shipping. Then build the heads and cams for high revs and there you have it. A 3.5 liter flat plane crank motor for under 3500 or so. Also this address the balance problems inherant with flat plane cranks. TVR has no balance problems, and neither does ferrari nor cosworth etc etc so it can be done, the TVR uses no balance shaft and yes offcourse it vibrates but it revs heaps higher and easier because a flat plane doens't require counterweights and thus is very much lighter, vibrations are normaly cured partly with the use of lighter materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm sorry but your not getting a tvr speed 8 crank for $800, even if one could be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Its worth a shot and that was a guess anyway. But that is a source... If it helps anyone this was neat, its a TVR rebuild and has some good information http://www.warks-tvr.org.uk/downloads/quinny/part3.pdf For instnace get on Uk's version of ebay and look up v8 crankshaft. I think there is a flat plane for a rover there for under 100 Euros. Here is the link http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&dfsp=1&catref=C6&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=V8+crankshaft&sacat=14239%26catref%3DC6&a6=-24&a39=-24&a39702=-24&a10244=-24&alist=a6%2Ca42078%2Ca39%2Ca41%2Ca39702%2Ca10244&pfmode=1&reqtype=1&gcs=2390&pfid=3528&pf_query=V8+crankshaft&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=Postcode&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&fgtp= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Just for the record... I have some detailed drawings of one of the the Nissan VRH35 engines (in the nissan race cars of the late 80's and early 90's) and can tell you confidently that the VH45 from the Q-ship and VRH36-thing in the new Skyline are NOTHING like the racing engines. Sure the blocks may have similar cylinder bank webbing and such to the racing motor but not much else. Things were implemented in the VRH35 motor that are VERY cool and make the VH45 look like an SBC in comparison of enginneering level...LOL Cylinder heads in the VRH35 V8 engines had lifters and directly actuated the valves(no rocker arms), much better exhaust ports, block had stronger bottom end, space age pistons, etc... It could be though that the VRH35 flat-plane crankshaft (possibly made of un-obtainium) will fit in the VH45's bearing journals but that is not even certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze73 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Anyone have any more information on Audi V8's? Could be a candidate. http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/568306354.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeaut Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The TVR speed 8 uses a buick derived 4 liter alloy engine block as everyone knows. Sorry mate but you're 100% wrong about that. The TVR AJP8 (Speed 8 was never used as an official designation) has absolutely no connection with the Buick/Rover V8 other than the same number of cylinders. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I though Buick sold the rights to rover to then sold the rights to TVR. Am I incorrect? I may be wrong about the speed 8 have the rover motor, but I am sure that TVR does use the rover/buick design in something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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