to much power maybe

[Guest imagadget]

I am just new to the forum, I was reading the great piece on rear diffs and and am not sure if my swap is worth doing. I have a 1972 240 project car. I also have a 455 buick bored 40 over 11.5 compression stage 2 heads b4b intake 600 + hp and torque it weighs 40 lbs less than a small block Chevy it was built for boat racing, turbo 350 tranny built for engine power. it will drop in with out to much problem. I am not sure about what to run for diff independent sounds out of the question going to put in a cage to Tye it all together what is the best choice with the power. no plans for drag racing but maybe solo1 or king of the hill {shoot out at the stock car track:flamedevi}

[280zwitha383]

I will compliment you on posting in the correct topic (on the first try). Best of luck with your swap.

[BRAAP]

R-200 is perfect for your application. Strong enough for ultra brutal drag launches with slicks, bolts in, readily available in 3.36, 3.54, 3.73, 3.90 ratios. The R-230 is a bit overkill even for the dedicated nitrous blown V-8 drag races, it is heavier, and the Viscous LSD that comes in those is not consistent, and under extreme use, is a little wimpy in regards to its “limiting” of slip, but that is just my opinion from owning 3 cars that that have that V-LSD diff, (Q-45 and two Z-32s). The V-LSD is great for straightliners.

The long nose R-200 with some sort of limited slip, whether it be Quaife or a clutch pack is easy, bolts in, and works great.

 

That's my $.02

[1 fast z]

When you say stage two heads, are you talking 70's stage two heads?

[rudypoochris]

I think a standard R200 should handle your power fine. Weld it or get a beefy LSD carrier though.

[Guest imagadget]

engine was built in 1994 dropped into 1982 Olds Cutlass in 95, 3000 miles since install built to run 6000 rpm steady. I bought the car from original owner last year, he lost interest. have known car since 1985 it is what it is. trying to get around emission rules 82 needs all emission parts on and working the 72 240 doesn't need any:grin: olds also needs rear diff:cry2: and rust repair choose 240:hs: or cutlass:icon31:

[ZR8ED]

Looking to out gun that little red Fiero with the black snorkle over the roof? He is pretty good at the king of the hill at Mosport.

 

If your not an Ontario Z Car member, then you should be.

 

Scott.

[jgkurz]

R-200 is perfect for your application. Strong enough for ultra brutal drag launches with slicks, bolts in, readily available in 3.36, 3.54, 3.73, 3.90 ratios. The R-230 is a bit overkill even for the dedicated nitrous blown V-8 drag races, it is heavier, and the Viscous LSD that comes in those is not consistent, and under extreme use, is a little wimpy in regards to its “limiting” of slip, but that is just my opinion from owning 3 cars that that have that V-LSD diff, (Q-45 and two Z-32s). The V-LSD is great for straightliners.

The long nose R-200 with some sort of limited slip, whether it be Quaife or a clutch pack is easy, bolts in, and works great.

 

That's my $.02

 

Wow, you sure have more confidence in the R200 then I do. My personal opinion is the R200 is tremendously strong diff considering it's size. However I wouldn't trust it long behind a 600+ HP big block. I guess it all depends on how the car is driven. There are examples of folks on this forum that have grenaded an R200 behind the L6. Weight will also play a big part in survivabilty. Other than the typical gear howl, most R200's will live a long and happy life.

[e_racer1999]

narrowed 9" anyone

[Guest imagadget]

my son and I just want to have some legal fun with our toys Ontario Z might be fun

[Guest imagadget]

narrowed 9" but what about handling suspension

[e_racer1999]

oh, full custom for sure. multilink?

[JMortensen]

Wow, you sure have more confidence in the R200 then I do. My personal opinion is the R200 is tremendously strong diff considering it's size. However I wouldn't trust it long behind a 600+ HP big block. I guess it all depends on how the car is driven. There are examples of folks on this forum that have grenaded an R200 behind the L6. Weight will also play a big part in survivabilty. Other than the typical gear howl, most R200's will live a long and happy life.

Just because someone managed to break a part with a 6 cylinder doesn't mean that the part is bad. I know a guy who snapped a mustache bar behind his NA L6 with SU's. That doesn't mean that the mustache bars are weak though... some people just have a special gift for breaking stuff.

 

The issue with the R200 or any of the R diffs is the spider gears go, especially when a 2 pinion open carrier is used for drag racing. If you start with a quality LSD, ie not the Z31T LSD which relies on ONE clutch disk per side to put the power to the side gears, then I would think it would last quite a while. So as BRAAP suggested, a Nissan comp LSD or a Quaife should do fine. Welded spiders on an open carrier should hold up for a long time too.

[jgkurz]

Just because someone managed to break a part with a 6 cylinder doesn't mean that the part is bad. I know a guy who snapped a mustache bar behind his NA L6 with SU's. That doesn't mean that the mustache bars are weak though... some people just have a special gift for breaking stuff.

 

The issue with the R200 or any of the R diffs is the spider gears go, especially when a 2 pinion open carrier is used for drag racing. If you start with a quality LSD, ie not the Z31T LSD which relies on ONE clutch disk per side to put the power to the side gears, then I would think it would last quite a while. So as BRAAP suggested, a Nissan comp LSD or a Quaife should do fine. Welded spiders on an open carrier should hold up for a long time too.

 

Jon, I wasn't implying that the R200 is bad because a 6 cylinder can break it. I have a turbo L6 with 427ft/lbTQ and haven't broke it yet, even when drag racing. I was trying to suggest that if some folks with a six cylinder can break a healthy R200, specifically the spider gears as you pointed out, that a 600HP big block will be even more risky. If the big block is running a manual trans then it'd be worse yet. In a nutshell, I'm of the opinion the the R230 will last longer than and R200 under that same abuse. Don't you agree?

[Clifton]

I have atleast as much torque as you with plenty of traction and haven't had any problems. IMO the R200 would be fine, especially if you don't plan to drag race it, can't really launch hard doing solo on semi warm tires. I would run 1310 driveshaft u-joints though. You are going to need some drag radials or some type of R compound autoX tires if you want to get the power down. If not you'll be roasting them at 70mph, fun at first but it gets old.

[JMortensen]

Jon, I wasn't implying that the R200 is bad because a 6 cylinder can break it. I have a turbo L6 with 427ft/lbTQ and haven't broke it yet, even when drag racing. I was trying to suggest that if some folks with a six cylinder can break a healthy R200, specifically the spider gears as you pointed out, that a 600HP big block will be even more risky. If the big block is running a manual trans then it'd be worse yet. In a nutshell, I'm of the opinion the the R230 will last longer than and R200 under that same abuse. Don't you agree?

What I said was get away from the spider gear issue by going to an LSD or welding, and then it should hold up. If your point is about the weak spider gears on the 2 pinion open carrier, then I do agree. But if the guy has a built 455 he should be able to afford a proper LSD. That's my take on it. The R230 is probably a good answer too, but then you're looking at so much fab work to get it in there it just seems like kind of a PITA to me.

 

I was serious about guys who can break parts too. Some people can break just about anything. If you want to design the Z so that the loose nut behind the wheel can do ANYTHING to the controls at ANY TIME with 600 whp, I think you'd end up with at 3500 lb Z car. What's the point in that?

[BRAAP]

Wow, you sure have more confidence in the R200 then I do. My personal opinion is the R200 is tremendously strong diff considering it's size. However I wouldn't trust it long behind a 600+ HP big block. I guess it all depends on how the car is driven. There are examples of folks on this forum that have grenaded an R200 behind the L6. Weight will also play a big part in survivabilty. Other than the typical gear howl, most R200's will live a long and happy life.

 

 

 

John,

Well I’m basing this on Z-gads 8 second time slips, (700+ HP I think they estimated that power at the wheels) and he is launching in a “power train brutal” 1.395 60’ time. Can’t leave out JnJ’s explosive 1.360 60 foot power train taxing WHEEL STAND launches with over 700+ Blown nitrous V-8 horsepower, and both these guys are running the long nose R-200 diffs. If these guys aren’t busting the R-200 launching with sub 1.4 second 60 foot times doing wheel stands, then I’m very confident that even a 1000-1500 HP road race/track car, (let alone a 600 HP one), wont bust the R-200 as road race/track cars aren’t able get enough traction to load the diff to the level those 700 HP drag guys do during those explosive launches. The diff in a road race/track car, even if it made twice the HP, will never see that amount of energy due to not being able to transmit that amount of energy into forward motion, i.e. traction. Though, in a road race/track situation where the diff is being loaded so hard for so long, I would think heat build up would be an issue, i.e. a larger reservoir or some form of external diff oil cooling may be warranted.

 

I know R-200’s have been busted, even with L-6’s, in fact, I busted one with my N/A L-28 and it had a stock cam and stock EFI, (car ran a measly 14.4 @ 97 MPH) but the failure had absolutely nothing to do with the engines power. The roll pin that holds the spider gear shaft/pin in place fell out allowing the spider gear shaft to move around in the cage and eventually that spider gear shaft wallowed a slot in the spider cage, (clunked loudly), and eventually that shaft/pin broke. That roll pin issue is the only weakness that I am aware in the R-200.

[Scottie-GNZ]

Folks,

 

you are forgetting a couple of things. Most all here that are running an R200, bought a used 20-25 yr-old part with no idea of the condition or how it was mantained. For all you know, when you bought it, it still had the original lube from the factory. The other thing is that most of the hard charging cars mentioned in this post run automatics. imagadget did say he will be using a TH350 and have no plans for drag racing so it has a very good chance of surviving.

 

OTOH, if it is an open diff with regular street tires, frequent wheelspins will probably bust the spider gears and retaining pin. I recall jmortensen writing an excellent article on this topic.

[jgkurz]

John,

Well I’m basing this on Z-gads 8 second time slips, (700+ HP I think they estimated that power at the wheels) and he is launching in a “power train brutal” 1.395 60’ time. Can’t leave out JnJ’s explosive 1.360 60 foot power train taxing WHEEL STAND launches with over 700+ Blown nitrous V-8 horsepower, and both these guys are running the long nose R-200 diffs. If these guys aren’t busting the R-200 launching with sub 1.4 second 60 foot times doing wheel stands, then I’m very confident that even a 1000-1500 HP road race/track car, (let alone a 600 HP one), wont bust the R-200 as road race/track cars aren’t able get enough traction to load the diff to the level those 700 HP drag guys do during those explosive launches. The diff in a road race/track car, even if it made twice the HP, will never see that amount of energy due to not being able to transmit that amount of energy into forward motion, i.e. traction. Though, in a road race/track situation where the diff is being loaded so hard for so long, I would think heat build up would be an issue, i.e. a larger reservoir or some form of external diff oil cooling may be warranted.

 

I know R-200’s have been busted, even with L-6’s, in fact, I busted one with my N/A L-28 and it had a stock cam and stock EFI, (car ran a measly 14.4 @ 97 MPH) but the failure had absolutely nothing to do with the engines power. The roll pin that holds the spider gear shaft/pin in place fell out allowing the spider gear shaft to move around in the cage and eventually that spider gear shaft wallowed a slot in the spider cage, (clunked loudly), and eventually that shaft/pin broke. That roll pin issue is the only weakness that I am aware in the R-200.

 

 

I guess the proof is real life experience. I've launched all my Z's with R200's at the strip for years and I haven't lost one yet. Of the few blown R200's I've been involved with I can't say I know what the final failure analysis result was.

 

Cheers.

[Guest imagadget]

I bought this 1982 olds with the 455 buick last spring for $1500 cnd from a long time friend of our car club I gave him the stock 455 engine in 1989 I am a low budget make it my self guy got the 240 for $100 from another buddy know where 280 parts car and 300zx parts cars cheep