Pop N Wood Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Saw this in the local paper and thought I would pass it on. Apparently most people who burn french fry oil do it illegally for multitude of reasons. The article says it is technically illegal to modify a car to run on any fuel other than what it was designed for. And because vegetable oil has not been approved as a fuel by the EPA, grease cars are in violation of the clean air act. They said this doesn't apply to bio-diesel, which is an EPA regulated blend of vegetable oil and diesel. They said modified cars are subject to a $2750 fine. They went on to say that people who modify their cars to run on vegetable oil are suppose to pay a 24.25 cent per gallon Maryland fuel tax, must be licensed as a special fuel user and need to submit a monthly report on fuel use. Another case of technology progressing faster than overly restrictive laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strotter Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Bitter irony that vegetable drivers are legal, whereas vegetable fuel is not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Not in NC! Yay, they passed a law granting all homebrewed bio-fuel and veggie cars do not have to pay taxes. Been running homebrewed biodiesel for 2 years now. No problems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaparral2f Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 All they really care about is the 24.5 cents tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 If I recall correctly they specifically outlawed making your own biodiesel in CA a couple years back. I am not sure if it was because they wouldn't have to pay tax on the fuel, or whether the concern was with the large amounts of methanol and lye being stored in people's garages to make the stuff. Probably both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datz280 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I may be wrong but i remember hearing that it was because making biodiesel was oil refining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Chevron has it...they want you to pay taxes. When they legalized home use Ethanol for Farm vehicles, you had all sorts of paperwork you had to fill out regarding taxes. Unless there is a tax exemption, you can´t legally produce it for use on PUBLIC ROADS. Similarly, you can not grow tobacco for sale to others, nor Peanuts either.... All comes back to taxations and regulation. There was a gent in Berkley that got nailed by both thye Feds and the state of CA for tax evasion. Fine plus taxes due on fuel burned. And since this guy was a proud environmentalist, and had documented every mile he head driven, along with fuel mileage, they had a very nice Article Five Waiver of the Constitution for calculating their fines!!! He was nailed for almost $10K in fines, plus that much again in Fuel Taxes Evaded! It´s Federal 24 cents per gallon, and State of another 18-20 cents... for 1000 gallons burned a year in an older Mercedes, you taxes can easily add up to $500 annually. Biodiesel is a joke, it takes about 1.25 gallons of commerically produced diesel to produce one gallon of biodiesel. But everyone feels better about it for some reason. BTW, this guy in Berkely wasn´t brewing his biodiesel, he was doing the much more direct `put vegetable oil in the car and run it´approach. He was buuying from the local Costco in 5 gallon tins, and paying roughly 35% more than commercially available diesel!!! Curiously, Costco´s cooking oil revenues have gone up 22% in the past three years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 For the record it costs me .37ish cents a gallon and I produce 250 gallons at a time. Chevron has it...they want you to pay taxes.When they legalized home use Ethanol for Farm vehicles, you had all sorts of paperwork you had to fill out regarding taxes. Unless there is a tax exemption, you can´t legally produce it for use on PUBLIC ROADS. Similarly, you can not grow tobacco for sale to others, nor Peanuts either.... All comes back to taxations and regulation. There was a gent in Berkley that got nailed by both thye Feds and the state of CA for tax evasion. Fine plus taxes due on fuel burned. And since this guy was a proud environmentalist, and had documented every mile he head driven, along with fuel mileage, they had a very nice Article Five Waiver of the Constitution for calculating their fines!!! He was nailed for almost $10K in fines, plus that much again in Fuel Taxes Evaded! It´s Federal 24 cents per gallon, and State of another 18-20 cents... for 1000 gallons burned a year in an older Mercedes, you taxes can easily add up to $500 annually. Biodiesel is a joke, it takes about 1.25 gallons of commerically produced diesel to produce one gallon of biodiesel. But everyone feels better about it for some reason. BTW, this guy in Berkely wasn´t brewing his biodiesel, he was doing the much more direct `put vegetable oil in the car and run it´approach. He was buuying from the local Costco in 5 gallon tins, and paying roughly 35% more than commercially available diesel!!! Curiously, Costco´s cooking oil revenues have gone up 22% in the past three years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 For the record it costs me .37ish cents a gallon and I produce 250 gallons at a time. What is your base stock. You are not considering the fuel costs and fuel used to produce your base stock. Don´t be fooled into thinking what an individual can do economically because of discarded base stocks is in any way sustainable in a larger mass/consumption environment. I would make 500 Gallons of Ethanol at a time, and the only way it was economically viable was the tax refunds I got by mixing it with gasoline to make my own gasahol. For a realistic economic model, you have to consider the fuel costs in the original base stock of the fuel...and when you do, the 1.25 gallons to one gallon produced comes into being. If your base stock was some naturally occurring substance that didn´t take electricity or other power input to refine to useable fuel, the cost of .37 cents would probably be a valid number. But if it comes from a commercial source and it´s reformulated waste, the oil cost of production is a lot higer that one would think...regardless of processing costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 What is your base stock. You are not considering the fuel costs and fuel used to produce your base stock. I'm sure Sparks will reply, but the base stock is used cooking oil which is of course free. As you stated, he is probably not adding the cost to actually heat the oil during refinement but even still, it is an economical alternative to diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 What is the cost of production of the vegetable oil. I'm not arguing the fact that his cost is lower than commercially available Diesel fuel. That is probably true. Every Tuesday from 1980 to 1982 I would load up a salesman with a Diesel Rabbit with the cooking oil from the McDonald's I worked at...guy had a deal set up so his sales route was in conjunction with the three stores in Alpena Oscoda and Tawas so he could fill a large aluminum tank in his hatchback area, and basically the guy didn't shut off his engine from September to May (otherwise the heater coil in the tank would go cold, and the whole schebang would revert to solid crisco!) For an individual using waste base stocks it indeed is viable. But as an industry, it's a big lie that it somehow will 'save the planet using renewable oil'. They are using an individual's costs, and totally disregarding all the costs in fuel and refining to GET the base-stock in the first place. Cooking oil does cost about 35% MORE than diesel on a per-gallon basis as it comes from the refinery...meaning without anyn road taxes being charged, diesel is about 55% cheaper to produce than vegetable oil! I have been a big proponent of fuel independence since my hippie days when I attended the Mother Earth News Alcohol Fuel Seminar Series down in North Carolina lo some 30 years ago. Hell, I was a 13 year old going to this thing instead of going on vacation. All sorts of bearded oldtimers that 'smelled like otto's jacket' interested in Farm Fuel Production. For an individual to make subsistence fuel, it is possible. But on a massive scale as something to 'save the planet' it's a big sham. It won't work. using areable land to make fuel instead of food is a big mistake, and will cause far more wars than simply fighting for oil. Oil is not a necessity. Food is. When you trade food production for a non-necessity such as vehicular fuel you make a dangerous tradeoff that moves in the wrong direction for not only the country, but the world as a whole. But from an individual standpoint you can get cheap fuel as long as your base stock is available cheap enough. From that standpoint it's economically an alternative. Just remember, used vegetable oil doesn't seep out of the ground and become useable right then and there. There is a cost to produce it, you just don't see it as it's considered 'expended commercially' when you start with it. From that standpoint, it is NOT an economical alternative! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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