JMortensen Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I've been sidetracked from the car for about the last week or so installing cabinets and trying to get the countertop figured out. I've got a 14' wall and I've installed the cabinets and a 3/4" plywood top for the whole wall. I left about a 4' space in the middle, and I'm going to make a desk/work area in that spot. I'll have to get an extra tall chair because the counter height is 36" as installed. The cabinets are all shimmed and screwed to the wall, so it's coming together, I'm just stuck on these damn Formica countertops. The cabinets needed to be spaced 2" away from the wall so the pre-made countertops don't work. I bought a roll of Formica and basically I need to cut it to the correct depth of about 27 1/4" and then dress the front. I have a 10' by 5' roll of Formica that was special ordered, so I know there is going to be a seam in the countertop somewhere. I've read some online and talked to a few people and most are recommending that I use a router with a straight bit to cut the Formica to the right depth of 27 1/4". I guess feedback here would be nice. Is there an easier way, or is that pretty much the best way to go. The bigger problem is figuring out the front face and what to do there. All the examples I've seen talk about putting on a piece that is 1/2" by 1 1/2" or something like that, and then running a strip of Formica down the front face. When I put a strip that tall on the front it hits the tops of the drawers, so that seems to be a problem. Even if it's shorter it seems like anything that hangs down below the ply would be a finger pincher. Would it be a bad idea to just glue the Formica to the edge of the 3/4 plywood instead? I suppose if the plywood surface is a problem I can probably get a 3/4" x 3/4" trim piece and put the Formica on that instead. And once I figure out trim or no trim in front, I think the basic procedure is as follows: Cut Formica top to correct depth. Glue to plywood (yes, I know about the dowels and all that). Cut the 3/4" or whatever it ends up being strip for the front face. Glue it to the front trim or edge of the plywood. The last step seems to be to then router a bevel on the edge. Am I missing anything? Sound like a good plan? Suggestions on router bits? Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatMan Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I think you are going the right direction. If your plywood substrate has missing holes (where knots were), and your formica is thin enough, you will either need to fill the holes or add a layer of masonite. I like the idea of having a "nose" overhang in the front, and you can always space it so that fingers don't get in the way, or get drawer hardware that has the "easy glide, self-closing" feature. Try this bit, or one similar for your fiinish product. http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5102-no-file-trim-router-bits-us-patent-no-4669923.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 I used the "cabinet grade" ply, so there aren't any huge holes. What would I use to fill holes in wood, if I were inclined to do that? That bit you linked to is a finishing/trimming bit. Seems like if I used that to trim the top then the front wouldn't match up right because of the radius. Maybe you set the depth deeper on the second pass with the router... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Bearing router bit is good for the bevel. To cut flush you can also use this one(flush trimmer, first bit), just use some vaseline or a couple of strips of masking tape along the finished laminate. http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=accessory_list&tag=acc_laminate_trim&cat_tag=182 To fill the holes you can use bondo and sand it flush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 I have bondo. I'll take a close look at the edge and see if I think it would need the filler. I think I'll do the flush cut bit first, then glue both pieces on, then do the radius bit last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CDC# C29300 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Overhanging the formica and cutting with a straight bit with a guide bearing on the end like Darrel linked to is the way to do it. On the face the formica shouldn't overhang anything. There should be wood behind the whole piece of formica. That stuff can pull free pretty easily if an edge is exposed. Most countertops are an inch and a half thick, or include a border that is. That way you have an inch and a half thick piece of formica edging everything. A 3/4 inch strip will never stay in place. You also know the trick to use wood dowels when laying the formica on the glued surface. Once the glued surfaces touch you will no longer be able to reposition the formica. I hope you are putting the formica on the counter top before you install it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 put the front piece on before you trim the top to fit then take the beveled bearing bit and fallow the edge of the counter. this way the front is actually under the counter top formica and more hidden. and some wood putty would be fine and you more than likely dont need to fill any of them unless they are the big football looking hole things.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 On the face the formica shouldn't overhang anything. There should be wood behind the whole piece of formica. That stuff can pull free pretty easily if an edge is exposed. Most countertops are an inch and a half thick, or include a border that is. That way you have an inch and a half thick piece of formica edging everything. A 3/4 inch strip will never stay in place. That doesn't sound good. I guess the other option would be a wood trim piece in the front. That would be easily doable. I hope you are putting the formica on the counter top before you install it. No actually, I'm not. I've read that over and over, but the way these cabinets went together and because I needed to use more than one sheet of ply it was really necessary to screw the countertops from the bottom up and also from the top down to get everything to line up flush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Ok I might be able to help. Frist get your self some of those vinesion blinds. Take apart and lay on the glued surface of ply and alinge formica.(Formica glued on backside of course) Pull one piece at a time from one side working air bubbles out. Use alot of weight rolling during and after! Face the fornt of ply with oak and over hang formica about a 1/4 inch or so. Use a beveled bearing bit on your router to give the finished edge! (this will flush up the formica with having to be percise with all you mesurements at all!) Above ALL, dont use cheap crap, glue, formica, wood, you cant just unbolt it later;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I had a countertop that had a wood face with a formica top, it looked really sharp! Good luck! i want to see pics when you are done, sounds like quite the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back-to-zcars Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 The wood front edge could be any hardwood that will match the rest of your home ie oak maple or what have you. You can either bevel the top edge leaving the wood front or face the front with laminate. Cut your laminate to leave 1/2" overhang on all edges, this you will router of with a flat bit if you finish the front edge with laminate or a beveled bit if leaving the front edge exposed. After you glue up both the back of the laminate ant the plywood top and it has flashed off snake a extension cord all over the plywood, lay the laminate in the cord and slowly remove the cord. It is important that as soon as the top comes in contact with the plywood you slowly keep pulling out the cord and also pushing the top down and towards the cord to keep any air out from under it. I hope this makes sense. The beveled wood edge finish is easer and makes a higher quality job in the end. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 I'm liking this wood on the front idea. Anyone know where can I get some hickory to do the front trim piece? I think oak would look funny on the hickory cabinets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back-to-zcars Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 You should be able to find info on your area from your laminate supplier. The wood front edge is a very common finish in new construction. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 You can also speak to local lumber yards, I am sure they could refer you to someone who can set you up. Hickory cabinets? NICE Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatMan Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 This wouldn't be in what was formerly your office, would it? The bit I posted is a finishing/bevelling bit. I believe that the front face would need to be applied and trimmed flush, then the desktop applied and bevelled with that bit. I guess it's moot if you are going with a wood reveal. Install that piece first screwed from the top, then cover the countersunk screw heads with the laminate. Any hardwood/flooring outlet should at least point you in the right direction for hickory lumber if they do not have any in stock. Let me know if you can't find anything because there is a GREAT hardwood supply in Auburn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Jmortensen, hickory huh? That there is mighty pricey wood! The extention cord sounds cool, but those slats on blinds are just so easy to handle and the lift is so little that it is easy to alinge! Also small router, and I used a 1/2 board so the bevel cut dose not cut into the ply. Also be sure to have that over hang a bit so when you spill your beer into your keyboard it runs off the counter and on to the floor w/o traveling down a cabinet face or back unter the counter top. Good luck and may your router never bind in mid cut:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 The cabinets are prebuilt units from Lowes, so they're not the most expensive things ever. I had never seen hickory before, it's apparently a new product for Lowes, but my wife and I both loved all the color contrast in the wood, so we went for it. I got the Formica cut today. It was actually pretty easy. Used a trimmer/router from Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44914 I also bought an assortment of router bits to go with it. I used a 1/2" straight cutter with a bearing. Worked fine. Now on the top I'm thinking about using the 1/4" radius router bit that came with the assortment I got. Anyone think that is a bad idea for any reason? I just thought it would be nice to have more of a curve than the 1.5mm curved router bit, which HF didn't have and I'd have to go buy. The scariest part of the whole deal is the next part: gluing the Formica down. I'm worried about getting the seam tight. When the parts are lined up the seam is pretty damn tight. I'm just worried about getting them lined up and not letting anything touch before they're absolutely perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatMan Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 IMHO, if you put a radius on the top edge, the formica will not lay down over it. You would have to cut your formica short, and have the 1/16" 'lip' for lack of better words. You still haven't answere my question as to if the location was what was formerly your wife's study/office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Sorry Mat, I was just going to show pictures when it was all done instead. No this is downstairs in the room where you set up Amelie's play pen. The room that had the built-ins that we tore out. The idea on the radius is to glue the formica down and THEN cut the radius. If that still won't work, then I guess I need to go get the right bit from the Lowes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatMan Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Oh, cool! I am glad that you thought of something to cover that area up! In that case, I don't see why that wouldn't work, besides aesthetics (assuming the bit stays sharp enough to not rip out chunks). I think the center of formica is a dull brown, and that would be exaggerated by the radius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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