blueovalz Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 The main advantage of doing this with the Techno Toy parts is that they appear to be simply thick steel plates welded together to form the strut assembly. If you were serious about this idea, I'd see if you could get the parts and pieces from that vendor prior to the weldup and position the main plate (the plate holding the hub) one inch rearward, and weld it yourself. Alignment would be the big concern if you did this (lower control arm pickup points are parallel to the main plate and perpindicular to the tube, as well as kingpin inclination). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I was thinking about this on my way into work this morning (partly because I'd also like to easily move the rear wheels back to center the wheels in the well), and was thinking about the knuckle. Is it a cast piece that supports the bearing, as in it's pressed together, and there isn't a 'conventional' bearing/hub assembly? One that would be held on with say 4 bolts. I've only seen a few pictures of this area and haven't seen this part detailed, the pictures I've seen were showing off other areas, like the LCAs and disc upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 No. The conventional strut is all cast together, and there is no easy way to modify it.Here is a pic from the photo gallery. It isn't the best for the purpose of explaining how it is assembled, but it is the best one I could find. Six Shooter, if you don't know, please do some research before you post. I found that picture in less than the time it would have taken you to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thanks for the pic, but with the gallery the way it is, it would take me much longer to find a pic of what I wanted to see than asking about it. I was second guessing myself, that's why I asked. Anyway..... So the struts is then pressed into the cast knuckle. Then spacing or modifying the LCA where the knuckle attaches (to move the assembly back) puts that bind in that has been mentioned at the upper strut mount. How much are we really talking about here to center the wheel? 3/4", 1"? It keeps looking like it will be easier to just wait and do the live axle swap (for me) than try and push the existing IRS back, without some involved modifications. Are we trying to do this with stock diameter springs? Looks like some space could be found by switching to a smaller diameter spring/coilover, and then modify the upper strut mount (by slotting and reinforcing the upper strut mount), which I think has been mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSideways Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I was thinking about this on my way into work this morning (partly because I'd also like to easily move the rear wheels back to center the wheels in the well), and was thinking about the knuckle. Is it a cast piece that supports the bearing, as in it's pressed together, and there isn't a 'conventional' bearing/hub assembly? One that would be held on with say 4 bolts. I've only seen a few pictures of this area and haven't seen this part detailed, the pictures I've seen were showing off other areas, like the LCAs and disc upgrades. For all of this "thinking" can't you just get under the car and figure out you are pi%&%ing in the wind? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 For all of this "thinking" can't you just get under the car and figure out you are pi%&%ing in the wind? Alan I would, if my car wasn't still 2000 miles away from me right now, but thanks for your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Guys, settle down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Here's how I did mine. ZRaceProducts LCA with standard size aluminum bushings. ZRaceProducts LCA with offset aluminum bushings. Both sets of aluminum bushings side by side. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Here's how I did mine. ZRaceProducts LCA with standard size aluminum bushings. ZRaceProducts LCA with offset aluminum bushings. Both sets of aluminum bushings side by side. Dragonfly That's actually a pretty bad idea Dragonfly. Because the control arm won't line up with the strut top and the strut itself can't pivot, you'll be putting some major stress on the strut itself and the control arm. Whichever is weaker will flex as the suspension moves, but those control arms you have are pretty beefy, so you're undoubtedly putting some good strain on the strut itself. If you could move the strut top back to be inline vertically with the strut assy, then you'd be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 That's actually a pretty bad idea Dragonfly. Because the control arm won't line up with the strut top and the strut itself can't pivot, you'll be putting some major stress on the strut itself and the control arm. Whichever is weaker will flex as the suspension moves, but those control arms you have are pretty beefy, so you're undoubtedly putting some good strain on the strut itself. If you could move the strut top back to be inline vertically with the strut assy, then you'd be OK. I know what you are saying and the reason I did this and that I feel it is ok is because of the hiem joints, they seem to allow enough rotation during wheel travel to not cause a binding situation (in combination with the pillow ball at the top in the camber plates). I replaced my broken half shaft the other day and I am going to be autocrossing the car on the 16th. I may find out the hard way that you are correct or it may have enough to not bind and work out just fine for me. I will see and let everyone know. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Can you tell me what the specs are on those aluminum bushings (the ones that fit into the rod ends), and where you sourced them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I know what you are saying and the reason I did this and that I feel it is ok is because of the hiem joints, they seem to allow enough rotation during wheel travel to not cause a binding situation (in combination with the pillow ball at the top in the camber plates). They don't allow rotation of the spindle pin fore and aft, which is what you would need to keep the top aligned. I did some messing around with this when I built my control arms. I shimmed the struts forward and back and compressed the suspension with no springs, and I was able to see the strut shaft moving around in the camber plate hole. More info here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=106457&page=9 post #168 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Can you tell me what the specs are on those aluminum bushings (the ones that fit into the rod ends), and where you sourced them? I will have to go out and measure them as I don't recall off the top of my head. As far as sourcing them I made them out of out of 6061 T6 aluminum stock in the ZRaceProducts machine shop. If these prove to be a problem for me as Jon is suggesting I could be incouraged to send them your way for the cost of shipping, but I have to experiment around with them some more first prior to making a decision on that. They don't allow rotation of the spindle pin fore and aft, which is what you would need to keep the top aligned. I did some messing around with this when I built my control arms. I shimmed the struts forward and back and compressed the suspension with no springs, and I was able to see the strut shaft moving around in the camber plate hole. More info here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread...=106457&page=9 post #168 I am always more than happy to learn from someone elses lessons before making them my own when I can. I will be reading the above link and will pull my springs and run the suspension through its full travel several times to check for any binding or undue stress. If I find anything that concerns me I will probably be sending some offset bushings to Terry. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 The AZC rear control arms used to be this way. At least a few years ago. I was told you had to run the style of camber plates like John C sells that dont require welding. After you installed the arms you would have to line up the camber plates as if you were tying to add more caster as in the front. This should eliminate the binding, because both top and bottom are now moved back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 The biscuit style plate that John sells has several adjustments on it, which move the caster and camber settings together, but it does not have an infinite adjustment. For that reason I don't think you'd want to use it to try and move the strut shaft back. I suppose it might work if you figured out what adjustment you wanted first, and then moved the strut back to line up with that spot. Seems much easier to tilt the strut than to move it back and maintain the perpendicular angle. To tilt you just need a control arm that allows for the tilt without binding, like this theoretical one: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=129154 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Jon, you were right again... I actualy decided to check prior to racing the car and found that I was getting some binding so I pulled out the offset bushings and re-installed the correct bushings. I raced the car today and it went well except cold tires = slip and slide. Once I had some heat in the tires things went much better but still about 7 seconds off TTOD (not counting the shifter cart). In a nutshell for anyone looking at what I had done to relocate my wheels... Don't do it, it will cause binding and probably break something before long. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I'm glad I was able to help. Thanks for posting the follow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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