PhilbertZ Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hi everyone - new Z owner here (couple months), and while taking my 1980 280ZX on a 150 mile trip up to my in laws this morning for the three day weekend, it broke down about 50 miles from home. What happened: Had been on road for an hour or so. Was doing about 75 on the freeway with no issues. Had radar detector plugged in to cigarette lighter, when the detector started to go a little haywire, making beeps and displaying lights all at once. This happened a couple times. Each time, I unplugged the cigarette lighter and plugged it in again. I finally just pulled it out altogether and left it out. About 10 minutes later, the car started to lose power in 5th. I downshifted to 4th, then 3rd - the power just "deflated". I went to signal to pull over and my signal didn't work anymore. By the time I got to shoulder and had slowed down, the car was dead. Voltage showed about 13-14 volts. Car wouldn't turn - just one click (not the multiple clicks you hear when a battery is dead). Fuses and fusible links in engine bay all seemed fine - checked twice. Everything else in engine bay seemed good - no leaks, no disconnections. With key turned, the power windows worked effortlessly, so power seemed to be fine. As we waited for the tow truck from AAA, I tried to turn it over a few times - waiting about 15 minutes between each attempt - after each period of waiting, the starter seemed to make one small "chug" or "churn" before stopping altogether. I had it towed to a shop nearby, and got up to my inlaws another way (would have cost $180 to tow back home, plus taxi home to get our backup car). So now it's at a AAA mechanic 50 miles from my home and 100 miles from my inlaws - they are going to run a diagnostic Monday and call me. Background: I've had the car for 2 months - got it from original owner and have full service records, which I have gone through and documented - no history of electrical issues that I noticed. The car's been great, except a soft clutch. One thing I noticed, is that at random times, if I have the fan on at any level - even its lowest point - the system will sporadically turn the heating/cooling fan up really high for a moment - then it goes back to normal. I have a sneaking suspicion that there is some electrical interference within the climate control, and perhaps the cigarette lighter/radar detector...I'm not electrically inclined. While I hope this is a simple issue like a dead alternator, as I wait for the mechanic to call me, I'd love to hear your input on this experience - maybe there are some questions you could recommend me to ask the mechanic Monday, since he's not a "Z specialist"? Hope you guys can please help me - I don't want to be marooned! Thanks for any input you guys can give Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger.svoboda Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 the 280zx are really voltage sensitive as far as the electronics go. Mine had a marginal battery which was the last thing I blamed as it was a new Interstate. After going thru many things I finally said got to be battery problem took her to interstate they checked and yes here is a new battery under warranty. So I would really check on hte battery status have them put the load tester on it. Then check to be sure the battery cables are good and corrosion free. Doesn't sound like a blown fuse or fusible link. Bad starter wouldn't cause the sudden loss of power as you are driving. but a bad battery would show up as a loss of starter. a bad battery would do as you describe. Mine was similar. The original battery cables were like a strap clamp and prone to breakage from overtightening. then that got cut off and someone put on one size fit all type clamp the cable. Those then corrode down the insulation and the cable becomes incapable of carrying the proper current to where it is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger.svoboda Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Oh by the way. Check the hydraulics on the clutch circuit if soft you may have low fluid, water soaked fluid or a bad master or slave cylinder. The cylinders are cheap like $30-40 each so just replace and be done with it. if the fluid is black as india ink then full of water and not prone to working well when warm. put some new stuff in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilbertZ Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Thanks so much Roger - that's comforting to hear that it may be something that simple. Regarding the clutch - I bled the clutch and added more fluid last month - the pedal is still soft....replacing the master cylinder is on my list of things to do - I'm keeping an eye on the fluid level. If anyone else has input on the eletrical, let me know. Thanks again Roger - much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I agree with Roger. Keep it simple and start at the battery. The 280ZX is very sensitive to battery electrical flow and lights, dash instruments, and even keeping the car running will be affected by bad cables/battery in the car. Here's a good link for any car with running problems...http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=122448 LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 If you're use to driving domestic standards the Datsun clutch will feel very soft. I added another spring to my master cylinder just so I could feel mine easier. As for your electrical system, I agree with everyone, start at the battery. Your description of the blower motor issue tells my your dash harness may have some kind of grounding problem. I've seen pristine Zs with no rust have rust on the dash frame that caused grounding issues with the dash harness. It's rare, but possible. Just one idea to look for. Get a can of contact cleaner and spray down the fusible links as well. Never hurts to clean them occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Since its 100% dead my first wild guess is a bad alternator/voltage regulator since you said it would go up and down. Sounds like its nothing TOO serious though! Good luck. Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrommitZ Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Since its 100% dead my first wild guess is a bad alternator/voltage regulator since you said it would go up and down. Sounds like its nothing TOO serious though! Good luck. Evan I agree with Evan. My guess is that your alternator brushes are worn. I bet you were driving at night because headlights will drain a battery quickly. Did you notice your headlights dimming on the road before the car died. If this is the case, a charged battery should be good enough to get you home in the daytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 The issue with the radar detector sounds like a ground issue IMHO. You may have multiple issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I have seen over voltage make radar detectors freak out too. IMO Dr. Hunt is right though, along with the others. You should clean all the grounds (at the very least for preventative purposes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilbertZ Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Thanks guys so much for the additional infromation - this will help me a lot when I speak with the mechanic tomorrow (hopefull he's thinking the same way and will have taken this approach to the problem as well. GrommetZ - I was driving at 9 in the morning so no lights were on. The scary part is that we were going to leave the night before - around midnight - to make the journey and avoid the morning traffic...so glad we didn't do that!! That's good to hear about the grounds - whatever the mecahnic does, I'll be sure to check the grounds everywhere and make sure they have good contact - is it as simple as disconnecting them, brushing with a wire brush on both contact surfaces, and then reattaching? I have a 2 inch thick model-specific service manual that I believe show where all the grounds are in the engine bay and dash (I had some time to read it while waiting for the tow truck...). Thanks again guys for your insight - cross your fingers! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(goldfish) Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Yeah, don't trust those 25 yr old gages to accurate. If a battery is partly dead, I have had them engage the starter and keep it engaged but not turn the engine. But then again they normally have enough power to run the car then. Still test the battery with a DMM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger.svoboda Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 alternators don't have brushes you are about 20 years behind this car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger.svoboda Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 make sure someone didn't cut off the ground cable. The ground cable should go to a bolt just below the battery box and then to the starter. If that bolt gets corroded some people go straight to starter. this can cause insufficient earthings as the limeys say. Also not a bad idea to run a couple of grounds to either side of the engine compartment. I use 10 gauge wire to a convenient 6mm bolt on either side of the frame. There are plenty to chose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilbertZ Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 Thanks Roger. So you can have multiple ground wires come off the battery? Keep in mind I know hardly anything about circuits... I've heard that having Long ground wires causes interference in radio speakers - but is that only when you're grounding the radio/speakers? I think I'm sensing a theme here: Bad battery Bad alternator Bad grounding on (possibly many) wires Thanks all - hope to have good news tomorrow when I call the mechanic. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilbertZ Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Thanks again everyone. I heard from the mechanic today - it was the alternator and they are replacing it tomorrow. He said they were able to start it, then let it run and watch the volts go from 13 all the way down to 7 before it died. I'll get it tomorrow and check on the grounds you guys mentioned above - see if I can clean them up. Given what happened (and that I got a new alternator), do you think it's safe to still use 3rd party electronics like the radar detector mentioned in the beginning of this post? I'm guessing it put quite a load on the system, and triggered something that ultimately "killed" the alternator on Saturday... There was a comment above about Z electronics being "touchy" or something to that effect, so I'm wondering, even with a new alternator, if it's going to be an issue to use GPS, radar and other cigarette lighter electronics in my car going forward? Thamks for indulging me and again for the outpouring of ideas so soon after my post - it's very appreciated! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 If you have a fresh alternator, a radar detector should be just fine They just wear out after so much spinning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(goldfish) Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 If you have a fresh alternator, a radar detector should be just fine They just wear out after so much spinning That is true, but some people were guessing that you might have a short in the cig. lighter wiring. Check that before using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilbertZ Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 That is true, but some people were guessing that you might have a short in the cig. lighter wiring. Check that before using it. Will do! That's on my to do list next time I have some garage time with the car. I went back and checked my records....the car has been through 2 other alternators - the last one in 1995 at 150,xxx miles. That seems like a long time to go in between them so I'm not too down about it... still need to get in there and check for shorts/corrosion! I have a voltmeter (that I really don't know how to use...) - to check for a short (like in the Cig lighter), is there a quick and easy process to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Glad to hear they got it running. My 280Z SBC had a similar issue when I first got it. I ended up replacing the alternator, starter and battery all within 2 weeks. Not sure who took who out but I ended up getting rid of the Datsun Alternator and voltage regulator and went with a 1 wire GM alternator, an easy swap. As for grounding you want to have good grounds from the battery to the engine and chassis, and from the engine to the chassis. When I did my LT1 engine swap I ran grounds from the engine to the chassis on both front frame rails and 1 to the firewall. Make sure the ground point is very clean and use star lock washers to assure good contact. These computer controls cars are real picky about good grounds. Thanks Roger. So you can have multiple ground wires come off the battery? Keep in mind I know hardly anything about circuits... Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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