The Saga of my First Stroker -- and some restoration...

[josh817]

Alright! We have ignition, fuze box, headlights, all that crap. However, I need to get 12v to the fuel pump, I need turn signals, and I'm hooking up the electric fan now.

 

I have a question for you guys and thats:

 

There is a transistor above my coil. Now I'm not running that E12-whatever match box dizzy that a lot of dudes use to convert from points to electronic. I just bought this electric dizzy off some other 280z, it doesn't have the match box on the out. So what I'm getting at is... can I take out the transistor above my coil or does that transistor do the job for the electric pulse that is for the electric dizzy. In the conversion I do not see this transistor but I REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to kill a dizzy or a coil....

 

Link to conversion that I'm talking about:

http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/distributor/index.html

 

[Quin]

Feast while I work today, men.

 

Its not pretty yet because all the wiring and hoses are dangling around...

 

I like how you say all the wiring and hoses, I have more than that on my turbo side alone! lol

[woldson]

Murphy.

 

Carefull.

[josh817]

Why do you think I ran away from that turbo stuff. I have a big bucket of vacuum tubes, connectors, relays. Blah blah blah. We got all of that crap out and its finally clean.

 

 

However I want to focus on the coil and distributor question because like I said, don't want to fry it.

 

I did a Google search on my dizzy number and its not the typical "match box" (IC ignition unit) distributor a lot of people use to convert from points to electric. Its a '77-'78 single pickup dizzy (D6F4-03). Apparently its a California model so its limited to 8.3º of advance rather than the typical 10º... I'll get over it though.

 

Do I need that transistor or can I junk it like I did with the ballast resistor?!

[Daeron]

BTW it was pretty as soon as you got those carbs and valve cover on it

[josh817]

Its not that pretty anymore now that Mom's knee high panty hose are the air filters for the front carbs... >_> I have to get some more Uni filters or make a cold air box.

[josh817]

Never mind I've got answers. The transistor is what the ECU sends the pulse to, to fire the coil (thanks to TonyD Mr. Wikie).

 

Went to Orieleys and they have the GM HEI module for $37 and life time warranty so its all good. Just more money... >_<

[josh817]

Well we got her started up today but no oil pressure so we didn't run it past like 5 seconds... Fires right up though. Turned her over and it wanted to start up while Dad was giving the dizzy some advance but we maxed it out. So we moved all the wires over one clockwise and she started right up first turn. Sounds lovely but the oil pressure thing sinks my heart... We never primed the sucker because the oil would just run back into the pan while the motor was still on the stand. I should've packed it with grease but I didn't... Dad said not to and the only reason he said that is because everyone is saying its a stupid thing to do with his motors. He knew it should have been done but I guess we didn't do it thinking everyone else was right. Anyone else have this problem? The sump pickup is so far down the length of the motor, if the pump isn't primed I doubt it could suck oil all the way through the main galley from the sump... I unscrewed the sending unit and it wasn't damp, oil didn't dribble out the hole, and when we turned the motor over with the sending unit out, oil didn't spray out either. We filled the sucker up 1.5 quarts over and we'll drain some out later but our main goal is oil to the pump. I'm having some doubts in my work on checking the clearances on the pump... BUT I don't think any oil is in the pump at all... So my plan is the get the little hand pump that I used to fill tranny fluid, $4 at O'Rileys, and pump another quart into the hole which the sending unit screws onto. As soon as I do that I'll turn the motor over and check then. Along with that Dad will bring over a mechanical gauge from the shop and we'll run a Tee fitting. This way we can check pressure right off the bat instead of waiting for the slow old electric one... Other than that we have fuel pump, electric fan, everything else, minus the hazards/turn signals which I will tackle tomorrow before work.

 

In the mean time I'm going to listen to the videos on replay and savor the sound of my open headers. I'll upload them tomorrow or something, but they're short. I'll also give Mom lessons on how to take videos since she was kinda... bad at it.

[Daeron]

Try taking the spark plugs out while you crank it over. Zero compression means higher RPMs from just the starter motor, and also less heat load on the starter motor from an extended "on" period.

 

Just in case you weren't already.

[josh817]

Yah we did but that gauge is stupid slow. I remember before on the old motor it was a creeper but it read properly so as long as it shows pressure I knew I was good. We have a battery charger so its ok if it dies.

 

Main thing like I said is oil pressure so we don't blow bearings within a minute of running. I'm guessing everyone who has rebuilt an L motor or in fact any motor has primed their pumps. Its not as much of a big deal for Dads motors because the pump is inside the pan on them so its not a big stretch to suck oil through. If you have to change it, you have to drop the pan, so that sucks. I'll keep trying.

 

 

OH and not to forget. I fixed my distributor problem too. Apparently my model dizzy is the "dumb" kind which doesn't have the ignition module. It runs off the ECU which tells the coil when to fire. In order to avoid getting a new dizzy since I wasn't running any ECU's I went to O'Riley's and bought the GM HEI module with lifetime warranty for $41. Hooked it up in ten minutes and its ready to go. Works like a charm. You can see it in the 2 pictures to the right of the coil.

 

 

EDIT: ONE more thing! I couldn't help but notice the manual and the write ups exaggerating on the installation of the dizzy/oil pump drive spindle. It doesn't matter what position it is in. Install it, turn the motor to #1 TDC compression, and mark the plug which the rotor points to. It doesn't matter if its 7 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 3 o'clock, whatever, it doesn't matter. My #1 is in the 6 o'clock area, from there just do 1-5-3-6-2-4 counter clockwise. From then on out just note yourself that #1 is in a different spot than what the book says. The wire/dizzy/cap doesn't care which plug is #1, just as long as you have them in the right order.

 

Write up I used to install GM HEI Ignition Module (searchy helps ;]):

http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/articles/tech_hei.html

 

Video I threw together, nothing fancy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcN9bIYFPgU

 

 

[Dragonfly]

What I did with mine was I took an oil pump shaft (extra one I had) and removed the gear from it, I dropped the oil pump and filled it about ¾ full with oil then reinstalled it with the modified oil pump shaft. With the pan full and the oil filter in place I took some fuel line and put it over the end of the pump shaft (distributor removed) then stuck the other end over a large drill bit and inserted it into my handheld drill motor, I ran the drill until I had good pressure on the gage then took everything back apart. I put a pan under the oil pump pulled it back off removed the modified shaft and reinstalled the normal shaft, added a thin bead of form a gasket to both sides of the gasket and put it back together, then when I started the engine I had oil pressure just as quickly as I do now when I start the engine.

 

It is a little messy to do it that way but you know for a fact that you have oil and you will not start on a dry engine so to me it was worth it.

 

Dragonfly

[josh817]

That sounds good but I don't have another shaft, nor do I want to cut into one. However I am slightly confused by how this stuff works... If you get pressure, drop the pump, oil comes out. Then you put it back up. All of a sudden, because you dropped the pump, you have an air bubble. That air bubble is the cause of no pressure right? Our original plan was to drop the pump and pack it with grease and then try, get some suction.

 

 

However using my hand pump, and pumping oil into the sending unit hole probably does the same thing as you priming, then dropping it (essentially losing the oil), then mounting it back up. You were just reassured of pressure with the drill. Correct me if I'm wrong but if I pump oil into the sending unit hole, it SHOULD go into the pump... or I guess it could go the other way back into the pan... :/

 

All it needs is oil closer to it so it can get that suction going.

[Dragonfly]

You are correct, you can go in through the sending unit hole and provide pressure that way. You are also correct in that when dropping the oil pump there is no longer any pressure in the system. The purpose of priming the system and creating oil pressure is not so much to have full pressure when you start the engine but rather to have oil in every oil passage inside the engine and as much oil as possible inside the pump so that when you do start the engine you start building pressure with the very first crank. If you were to remove the spark plugs and crank the engine you would build oil pressure as soon as the pump primes and you would fill all the oil passages with oil, but as soon as you stop cranking the engine the oil pump stops building pressure and the pressure you had drops to zero so by the time you put the plugs back in and start the engine you have accomplished the same thing that I had done only you also did some dry running of all the moving parts first.

 

By doing it the way you are thinking through the sending unit hole you could have it pressurized at start up but if the oil pump in the engine happens to overload your external pump you are going to have one heck of a mess... and you don't want to shut off the engine untill the cam is broken in, also you will not have a gage on it so you won't know for sure that you truly do have pressure (if for some reason the pump doesn't prime you could trash your engine, assuming that you shut off the external pump).

 

Dragonfly

[josh817]

I think we are somewhat confused on one thing. I don't have an external pump. The only pumps I have are fuel and oil. I'm just running the normal oil pump on the front cover.

 

My hand pump is the type that screws into the top of a quart of oil or whatever fluid, they all share the same cap size usually. And you pump it with your hand into hard to reach spaces.

 

 

Like that but with a rubber hose on the outlet.

[Dragonfly]

I think we are somewhat confused on one thing. I don't have an external pump. The only pumps I have are fuel and oil. I'm just running the normal oil pump on the front cover.

 

My hand pump is the type that screws into the top of a quart of oil or whatever fluid, they all share the same cap size usually. And you pump it with your hand into hard to reach spaces.

 

 

Like that but with a rubber hose on the outlet.

 

Yep I was confused... and nope that will not do what you want. The best thing that I think you can do is to drop the oil pump fill it about 3/4 full with oil reinstall it, pull the filter make sure it is as full as you can get it, pull the plugs and crank the engine over untill you get pressure (should come up fairly quick) then reassemble and start.

 

Dragonfly

[josh817]

Oh I see... My goal was to try and fill the oil pump by using that hand pump and and going through the send unit. I don't want to try and get pressure using the hand pump. I'll jack up the car and see if I can do it from there... When I checked the sway bar was in the way I think. You don't think the hand pump will fill the oil pump?

[josh817]

Ok before I do this, let me ask, is it even possible for me to drop the pump with the motor in the car?

[Slow_Old_Car]

Yes, in some cases you have to unbolt your sway bar, thats about it.

[trippintl0]

It's easy to drop the oil pump. Unbolt the two sway bar mounts from sway bar to frame rail. Then you can move bar enough to slide oil pump out. 4 bolts, and out it comes. It's good idea to mark where rotor points on the dizzy, that way it's easy to align it back up with the mark when you reinstall pump.

 

I always pack the pump full of vasoline. I read that somewhere, and it always worked good for me, picking up oil pressure quickly.

 

Also I read you said it doesn't matter where rotor points on cap, because you can just move the wires around. That's usually true, but you have to make sure of one thing. If your rotor is pointing right at the edge of the contact on the distributor cap, then when you start driving and your dizzy advances 20-30 degrees, it might jump over to the next contact point! I actually had that happen to me once.

[josh817]

Thats good information. Oh my about the advance... I may have that problem as the motor was firing and we set them all back 1 plug and it ran. Got it running today and the timing light is showing like... over 30º of advance, we could get it down to 18º and thats about it so I'm not sure... According to the numbers on the dizzy and using the searchy, I have a California model dizzy which is restricted to 8.3º compared to the usual 10º. I'll see if thats my case and I think it very well may be as we marked #1 TDC but had to set it back so it may have been pointing like between the 2... Didn't have any misfires when we ran it though so I'm not sure. When we dyno it we can see.

 

Lets talk oil pressure. I'm not really sure what to think. I'd like to see some of your numbers at idle RPM from you guys... We filled the passage way with oil and started her up and we saw a couple of pounds.... I mean only a couple, it worries me. A new pump is in my future just for good measure or my sending unit went bad... It read some but not a lot and we ran the motor for 10 minutes today at least. Cranks over fine, revved MARVELOUSLY and no tapping noises. Sounds like a diesel up front so its tricky to confuse it with a tapping noise. The crank case vent on the valve cover spews a decent amount of smoke/steam but we have a quart or 2 more than what we should have... So many things confuse me about the oil... Too many variables. Too much oil should release the bypass on the pump and maybe thats why I lack oil pressure. Maybe the pump is bad, perhaps the gasket has something to do with it, bad sending unit (doubt). I'm picking up too many clues and I'm slightly confused about some stuff...

 

1: I clearance checked the pump and it was fine BUT does the gasket not add to that? I don't see how if I get a brand new pump which should be ready to go will work properly because that gasket is .003" or whatever thick so it throws everything off...

2: The motor ran hot. NOW this brings me into 2 branches. Either A, oil isn't pumping properly and isn't doing its part to cool. B, new motor runs hot (205º, between the middle of the gauge and 250). C, here it comes, wrong choice of flywheel and cam. I think the cam is fine but I don't like my idle. I want like 800 RPM idle. We can achieve this and the cam doesn't kill the motor but when you rev and it drops a little lower than idle, the motor dies so I'll have to deal with 1100 RPM idle, I'm just picky. My flywheel is too light though it seems. This is fine though, built a beast not a street lover. However, we were revving the motor to 4-5k and we weren't driving around so with only the electric fan running, I think thats fine. Put some water wetter in there, drop it by 10º or so and let the motor settle down.

3: Bad pump? If it shows some but not a lot that makes me think maybe the clearances are a little off and its pumping, but losing pressure within there...

4: If it ran for 10 minutes with no metal in the pan or anything and no seizing up, I think things are getting lubed. Maybe just enough though

5: Bypass is opened and its not holding pressure due to over filling.

6: I'm going crazy and its normal pressure. I remember it being low before. We only blipped the throttle so I couldn't tell if it went up much. I saw it move slightly...

 

Actually... I need to drain a little anyways. I'll do that tomorrow and check for metal. Start it up and then see. I'm not scared to run it without Dad anymore now that we have cleared everything up.

 

Well... I am somewhat scared. Its a dragon under the hood. The car shakes and the headers are right under your feet so its pretty loud. We scared the neighbors away... :/ ... and we only blipped it up to 5k... Haha.

 

GOOD VIDEOS COMING UP!