Dilligas Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Can patch panels or my 280 be welded with a 110v stick welder. Took a piece of 24ga. flat stock and by spotting and stitching I was able to keep from warpage. Ofcourse that was off the car. Trying to avoid the cost of a mig just for my Z project if I can. Help please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE with that 24g, and when you can do it every time, all the time, no flaws, then you can use that stick welder to weld on the car. Really, get a GOOD mig. They hold there value well, just sell it when you are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zchevyv8 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 24g steel isnt that quite thick not sure which way it goes is it the bigger the number the thicker or other way round any how you will be hard pressed to weld zed panels with a stick welder id invest in a mig then you can spot weld or better still joggle the edges and fully weld and grind flat and sell when your done with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 24g steel isnt that quite thick not sure which way it goes is it the bigger the number the thicker or other way round any how you will be hard pressed to weld zed panels with a stick welder id invest in a mig then you can spot weld or better still joggle the edges and fully weld and grind flat and sell when your done with it smaller number is a thicker core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilligas Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 If I'm going to be out in a car port, will I be able to use solid or will I have to use flux cored? Will mixed gas be ok as long as there aren't strong breezes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Changed your title. We want titles to be descriptive enough that people don't have to open the thread to figure out what it is about. 240zchevyv8, please use some punctuation in the future. Now that that's all done, I'd personally ditch the stick and get a mig. It may be possible to do the patching with the stick, but I think you'll spend lots of time afterwards on bodywork trying to get everything smooth. That statement is based on my own limited experience with stick welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 As long as it isn't too breezy, you will have no problem with mig. Its much cleaner than flux-core as well. You may consider putting up something to stop the wind before you start welding. Your welding outside, make sure NOBODY can see you and damage their eyes. This includes children, animals and neighbors obviously. Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilligas Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 Are the Z body panels thick enough to make good use of a flange tool? I have used one in the past on thicker metal and it makes alignment a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Are the Z body panels thick enough to make good use of a flange tool? I have used one in the past on thicker metal and it makes alignment a breeze. I think the Z metal wold be safe with a flange tool. but one gripe i have with the flange tool and repairing a panel on a civic quarter is that rust likes to start right where the flange meets the metal ontop.... if i were to use the flange too, i would do it in easily accessible areas from the back, and only as a temporary holding tab for the rest of the butt-joint welds. I would then use a miniature cut off wheel and remove the tab from behind once it is welded all the way around the rest of the panel. and then i'd lightly grind as best i could the inner panel, and then seal it nice. it's very hard to seal flange joints if you use them throughout the entire seam. the best you can do is paint the inside of both panels with weldable primer and then put a bead of body sealer on the backside of the flange/panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 man I wish I could stick weld and get good results!! it really depends on the stock you get!! make sure you choose the right one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilligas Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 I think the Z metal wold be safe with a flange tool. but one gripe i have with the flange tool and repairing a panel on a civic quarter is that rust likes to start right where the flange meets the metal ontop.... if i were to use the flange too, i would do it in easily accessible areas from the back, and only as a temporary holding tab for the rest of the butt-joint welds. I would then use a miniature cut off wheel and remove the tab from behind once it is welded all the way around the rest of the panel. and then i'd lightly grind as best i could the inner panel, and then seal it nice. it's very hard to seal flange joints if you use them throughout the entire seam. the best you can do is paint the inside of both panels with weldable primer and then put a bead of body sealer on the backside of the flange/panel. what about Rust Bullet on the flange prior to welding the butt-joint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I have rust bullet, but haven't used it. is it weldable? I think it's an aluminum compound, so I'm not sure if it will hold up well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I used to have the Eastwood stitch welder ($60 attachment to my ARC welder). It worked OK as long as I used their "Special" rods ( teeny diameter 1/16" ) and cut them in half. I used it for a few projects to weld in the floor pans in my Mustang and some quarter panel patches on my Spitfire. When I got my Z, I decided it was time for the MIG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Can patch panels or my 280 be welded with a 110v stick welder. Took a piece of 24ga. flat stock and by spotting and stitching I was able to keep from warpage. Ofcourse that was off the car. Trying to avoid the cost of a mig just for my Z project if I can. Help please. You can do it with a Stick, but it depends on how good a welder you are. You'll want you use your lowest amperage settings and as thin a stick as you can find. This will minimize the chances of burning through your panel. If you burn through, take a break, let it cool, and assess the damage, you would likely need to sand it flat and cut another patch. Don't try to close the hole by welding, you'll heat the panel too much and warp it. The Stick Welder as you know, uses flux coated rods, and while you can get a good strong weld, it won't be near as pretty as a MIG welded joint. The MIG uses gas to keep the oxigen away from the arc, and thus doesn't create much slag. You can use flux cored MIG wire, or both together. I really like the Supergas, 25/75% argon/CO2. It shields nicely and makes for some really nice welds. Also when you're welding, keep in mind that you'll be on a vertical surface as compared to your horizontal bench surface. There's a definite difference between the two. When you weld your panel in place with either type of welder, weld the panel in place with a lot of little tacks rather than long seams to avoid much heat buildup so you don't get warping. if you make a seam, don't go longer than about 1/2" at a time Really a MIG is much easier to weld with, and I think once you get one that you'll never go back to your stick welder. they ARE just that much better... Really! My 110V is a Lincoln 135, it's about the biggest you can get for 110V and I've been really happy with it. Lastly remember that once you've welded the patch in place, that the back side is still going to be bare metal, so if you can get to it behind the panel, then you'll want to paint or coat it with something to prevent the inside bare metal from rusting. I've seen plenty of good patches/paintjobs ruined by rust returning from behind the panel between the body and the patch. Good Luck, Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO-Z Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Old School Method for Patch Panels: Clean both the patch and the back side of the body panel with a wire brush or sand paper until it is completely clean and shinny Lay the patch panel on the inside of the body and screw or pop rivet in place, get some soldering past and body solder. Use a propane torch and solder the panel in place, grind off the screw of pop rivet The old school body men would then use the body solder or lead to fill the difference between the two, no bondo allowed. A lot of the old cars came from the factory with soldered together body panels. I have used this procedure several time in the past, I use it to fill trim holes and install patches, but it is sure a lot easier with my mig welder. One thing on stick welding with small rod. 6010, DC Rod, and 6011 AC Rod, like a little moisture in them. This is why after welding with and restarting a 3/32 rod it likes to run like crap. I have found that wiping in down with a damp cloth helps. This is for celluloid rods only not the Low High rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zchevyv8 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 a good way to weld is to butt weld, this is ok on say flat surfaces and ive done it myself on curves on the inner fender. also there is no tell tale lip either side of the weld once you grind flat. the best way to do it is get a 8" length of copper pipe 15-22mm diameter, and hammer it flat, then cut your steel patch a couple of mm smaller than the hole being filled, then while wearing welding gauntlets hold the patch in place and place the copper strip on the back of the seam being welded what this does is creates a conductive barrier preventing the welding wire passing through any gaps, so instead of passing through it arks up welding the gap, this gives a better weld and best of all the weld does not stick to the copper strip at all, ideal for filling in rivet holes and gaps of over 10mm can be welded with good results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilligas Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Thanks everyone for all the welding info and tips. Mig it is! Question: Are the welder manufacturers accurate with their steel gauge recommendations? Meaning, I will need to purchase a welder that comes set up for solid wire and gas, versus a welder that comes to use flux core and 15 amps less high end range? The Hobart and Lincoln welders I've been looking at recommend gas for below 22ga. What gauge are Z panels? I thought 24... Any advise on mig machine? Is the gas setup worth the additional 125-155 bucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zchevyv8 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hello i use a migmate 130 turbo mig welder which is gas shielded. In practical classics they carried out a test and this welder came top for performance. I would definately pay the extra money for gas, just get a larger bottle more cost effective. The lincoln welder is also good i use one at work very nice machine. Even with the mig youll have to stitch weld a zed panel or you will just blow holes in it. The way i do it is have welder set up for good penetration and only weld around 0.5"at a time. This way the welder does not blow holes in the panel because heat build up is less. And if you stitch weld all the way round the repair, the distortion is less as well. Finally finish of by welding all the gaps and all should be ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Thanks everyone for all the welding info and tips. Mig it is!Question: Are the welder manufacturers accurate with their steel gauge recommendations? Meaning, I will need to purchase a welder that comes set up for solid wire and gas, versus a welder that comes to use flux core and 15 amps less high end range? The Hobart and Lincoln welders I've been looking at recommend gas for below 22ga. What gauge are Z panels? I thought 24... Any advise on mig machine? Is the gas setup worth the additional 125-155 bucks? Yes, I'd definitely say the gas setup is well worth it. Most Migs come with the regulator and all else you need, cept for the tank, and the smaller wire. the tank you can get at any welding shop, or it's possible to use CO/2 as a gas shield. so if you have access to a Soda bottle it'll work well. I have a "power tank" I use for air'ing up my Jeep tires after a run, that's 20$ to refill with CO/2 that works well with my lincoln 135 Mig... As he said, Stitch is the best way to weld a panel, gotta keep the heat down. and liek I said earlier, don't forget to protect the back side of the repair. Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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